QUOTE (corsu @ May 27 2012, 05:39 AM)
There was a problem with Hanan (it was for instance impossible to have her descent registered in the UK for a while) but that has been solved - although perhaps not for everybody.
But there are indeed breeders as well that have a problem with El Samraa because of the absence of a Hujjah in the registry. See El Samraa gone with the wind or daughter of the wind/
article. I have already talked to a few SE breeders that will never incorporate Sameh blood because of this (but then these people are often stuck to their 2 or 3 foundation horses, it would also apply on other SE mares like Moniet el Nefous which can be traced to the Abbas Pasha stud, like King Farouk's stud assumed to trace only to desert stock)
Whenever I hear of a prejudice toward a particular ancestor in an Egyptian pedigree I am always curious if the person rejecting has defended their decision with a thoroughly well thought out reason for avoiding such ancestor or ancestors. Especially in an environment of the history of the Arabian horse whereby we have no choice but to take a certain amount of faith that what was known in the past by someone at some point in time is not known later because of the lack of a national registry in the past, or uniform record keeping, or the destruction of records in conflict or war or revolution.
I remember well years ago in Syria when I was trying to learn more about the background of Dajaniah the dam of El Nasser (in Nasralla's pedigree). The Arab person who I was interviewing through an interpreter was very proud of the Kuhaylah Dajaniah strain and I could see it in his face without even knowing the Arabic that was being spoken. When I continued to ask more questions through the interpreter, I could see his expression change to one of frustration and agitation. As the discussion continued I began to realize that I needed to communicate to him that I was not challenging the purity of this family and that I did not need convincing personally of the value of this blood but that I was dealing with skeptical western minds in making my appeal to get this line accepted by Al Khamsa and I just wanted to know all the details I could find.
At first this experience seemed somewhat embarrassing to me but as the conversation continued and he realized that I now understood why he was proud of this blood we became friendly through good interpreter interaction, a friendship that continues. What I learned from this experience is something that many newcomers may not understand and that is when a family of horses has a history of value and respect in the past, those valuing them never need to look back and question it and they do not need to know all the details. One word says it all to them "Dajaniah".
So what happens when circumstance cuts off the record of this pride and this value of the past? What if, in only one lifetime, all that is known orally about a prized mare's line is lost in the death of the person knowing and not passed on in full measure to others and such horses are sold off to new buyers who don't require to know more than perhaps said horse is fast on the track and comes from a reliable source but its strain is not remembered or not clear because of inadvertent interruption of the passing on of information?
Years later it may be possible to find the people who knew more. But if, in the meantime, the broader general information connects the horse to sources that can be reasonably assumed to be connected to the Bedouin horse breeding tribes, then the ancestor deserves our faith in it.
More than a century has passed now and the 1890 mare Halabia who came from Abu Amin Halabia's stables in Egypt is found many times over in EVERY SINGLE pedigree of living straight Egyptian horses. 1890 was still at a time when people like Lady Anne Blunt were keeping dairies, or journals or notes on horses of that era. Yet we still know nothing specific today of Halabia's origins or about Abu Amin Halabi to connect her to the Bedouin horse breeding tribes. Certainly we have to take her on faith the same way we do with El Samraa. Halabia is not a unique situation as there are numerous others that could be compared. In the bigger picture it seems very difficult and contradictory to eliminate some of the ancestors of Crusader, yet accept others.
Herein lies the great tragedy of making decisions without thorough investigation from all angles, or in closing the door to information previously unknown that now sheds more light on the ancestry of our Arabian horses.
It might be interesting to point out the stallion named Gamil El Din who is only listed in the RAS stud book as "a race horse belonging to Ahmed Bey Abu Foutouh." He is in many popular Egyptian pedigrees today, even in Bahrain. But all that was in print for many years about Gamil El Din was that he was a race horse. And now new information from old sources confirms that Gamal El Din was essentially a three-quarter brother to the mare Futna, a Kuhaylah Halawiyah who was one of the foundation mares of the renowned Hamdan Stud in Egypt.
Even the link cited above on the daughter of the wind blog regarding El Samraa could soon be obsolete as in our modern time we find new ways to be connected to those who have saved family histories and information just in the same way that I have kept some of my grandfather's letters in the 1930's about having seen in person some of the Davenport imported Bedouin Arabians in 1906.
Currently there are only about 67 or so "original" named Arabian foundation horses that make up the basis of straight Egyptian breeding. It would be sad to lose any of these precious benefactors. Egyptian Arabian breeders need to be aware that they cannot afford to lose any more pedigree diversity through prejudice, especially that which cannot be properly justified.