hello every body!

I was wandering whether any body would like to share any information regarding pigment loss with Arabians especially Egyptians. I know it’s a real problem that no one ever talks about (not in public anyway..)
I saw some gray ones that started to loose pigment around two years of age. But not mature horses. Lately I have encountered a 12 year old stallion that have started to loose color rapidly, I am talking weeks, is it normal ? is there any thing that could be done?

thanks
J.D.

I know a straight Russian bred mare, who, at the age of about 7, suddenly got these pink rings around her eyes after the birth of her 3rd foal. None of her ancestors are noted for pigment problems, so it was almost certainly not hereditary. I was told by a veterinarian that it might be due to copper deficiency, and that feeding seaweed supplements could help.

As for the lines which are well known for their pigment problems - I guess I could name Madkour I in Germany as a classic example without doing him injustice - I agree, they tend to start losing their pigment at an early age, so I would expect other reasons when it starts happening at 12 years of age for the first time. Perhaps it might be worth trying the seaweed stuff?

This is where the loss of the forum archives hurts the most. There was a large thread concerning this problem with suggestions of mineral suppliments as a (possible )cure.

Maybe the participants in that old thread will return and share their experience because for the life of me I cannot remember just what mineral/suppliment they suggested.

Becca

I've known a number of breeders who have fought this problem with everything suggested, everything imaginable, but it continued to be a problem.

My opinion, after many, many years of observation, is that in most cases, it is a result of breeding homozygous gray horses in the pedigree, generation after generation. I think it is very important to keep pigment close up in our pedigrees with the inclusion of color.

Hi Barbara and all

I am not so sure if it is hereditary. We had Serenity Sharaf, who lost pigment at age 10. His parents are greys, a lot of grey in his pedigree, his children dont have it either.

We once got a mare in- non SE- from Canada with horrible losses in the face. After 6 months here, they were gone. We think it has something to do with nutrion.
Yet at the same time, during the summer months, with lots of sunshine and heat, a couple of our older stallion
get some body spots, and come fall, they are gone.
None of their children are born with it, or have it.

We never did anything about it, left it up to nature.
Never worried about it either. It's almost like frecels
in people, like me. Had lot's in the summer, gone in the winter. Mmm.

Have a great day
Hansi

I think there are 2 forms of pigment loss - the hereditary form, which is seen predominately in certain lines, begins early, and is irreversible.

Then the second form, which seems to be due to some nutritional deficiency and is reversible, probably by restoring the deficient substance.
I'd certainly go for the theory that copper deficiency is a reason. I work in a large animal clinic, and have seen calves with the same kind of pale rings ("spectacles") round their eyes. The cause of those was copper deficiency, too. After the calves had access to copper, the "spectacles" disappeared.

You have probably hit the nail on the head with two causes. This can be why it is so hard to determine. I too have seen horses who can have a horrible problem, only to clear up and then it comes again.

We know that all living creatures do have various sensitivities to different things. My belief, as stated, is that you increase the tendency with too much "gray to gray" expecially with homozygous horses. I believe that this affects the melenin cell production in the skin. Even when the skin is not pink, on some of these homozygous horses it is a pinkish grey (visit the wash racks at some shows), and that does pass on.

Believing that the kohl black skin is an important characteristic of the Arabian, I do strive to maintain this in my breeding program.

Dear Angela,

I'm 100% with you, like Barbara.

Horses who are born with it, will most likely never be cured from it. But with with the other horses where it appears later on, I'm convinst its a difficiency. I have had a few horses sold, in lease and later they came back to our farm with big pigmentation loss arround the eyes, muzzle and over the body. I'm not sure what it is in the food I'm giving but each one of those three horses got his pigment back. One mare arrived a few weeks ago for breeding and looks a lot better now already! I think its a good sign to see that the diet I'm giving is quit complete! Hopefully!!!!

Before in Europe I tried with copper and .... nothing really worked effectively!

B.

Some years ago one of my *Carmargue daughters out of a *Talal daughter who was mostly old Egyptian on the bottom side of the pedigree tracing to *Roda, began having big huge circles of pink 'round her eyes. We fed her special supplements that seemed to help ever so slightly BUT a vet at UC Davis said that there was some evidence to suggest that inadequate exposure to sunlight might be the culprit!!! We turned her out and from that point on except a week before foaling and two weeks after, she is out in pasture round the clock and except for a pigment loss about the size of a pencil's eraser near her eye, her skin is totally restored to normal!

Gari

Dear Angela,

no - you are comparing apples with oranges. In cattle copper deficiency affects the HAIR pigment - not the pigmentation of the skin! That's a difference. To my knowledge copper deficiency has never been found to play a role in any sort of leucoderma.

Bart, I had thought of the sun factor also, and wondered if your leased mares were in a situation where they were exposed to sunlight when they were away and if they got more sun when they returned home?

I have never had a case of this myself, (touch wood!) and all my horses live outside. On the otherhand, I do have a lot of color in the pedigrees. I've known of horses kept in show barns that have terrible problems with it. In thinking back, there are very few broodmares on these farms who seem to be as badly affected..... with a few exceptions.

What is your opinion about the gray on gray, especially homozygeous gray, idea? Do you think that this contributes to the problem?

Dear Dr Wigger, I am not as experienced as your good self, but honestly I have several friends who gave copper supplements to horses with loss of pigment around the eyes and who found that it did the trick. Sincerely, Alia

Hello,

I have an Ansata Sinan mare who also lost a lot of pigment around the eyes and mouth she was really terrible to see. She was 2,5 years old then. I talked with two diffrent veterinairs and they all said the same you can't do anything about is it is genetic.

I didn't stop finding for an answer and i went to my last chance an alternative healer who has helped us a lot of time.

He looked at her and told me it was a bloodcirculation problem, when that is a problem and the liver is not working right , what most of the time is going together, there is to much dirty stuff in the body. It's like tying-up. When he checked her she was also very bad in the muscles. . He gave me a cure for 5 weeks to clean the liver, and that will clean the whole body also.. After a while here muscles were loose again and the pink was getting grey and after a few months she was completely black again and it never came back. The mare is now 6 years old.


I know it also worked on another horse but i also know that is once didn't work so it can also be something else.

I have also tried copper because somebody told me but it didn't work and you have to take of giving copper because it can be very dangerous and you can poison your horse with these metals.


I'm sorry for my english but i hope you can understand what i'm writing

Greetings Yvonne
Holland

Interesting answers!

My experiences? guess you need to consider how far back into the pedigree you want to go to find (if possible) the ‘hereditary’ link. Some people are not willing to reveal the ancestors/parents FPSS (Fading Pink Skin Syndrome).

I have one mare, I bred her, she has some pink skin., her sire does not and her dam did not show FPSS. Both parents are/were heterozygous greys – ie they both produced colour, the mare’s full sister is grey shows no sign of FPSS and has limited pink skin; two full brothers are chestnut with white stockings and blazes (pink skin).

Her/their supplement diet has been the same since conception – liquid kelp from the south seas (near Australia, ie less pollution), high-grade dolomite, apple cider vinegar, copper sulphate, sulphar powder and cod liver oil.

The mares live outside 24/7, rain, hail or shine. Over the last few years her FPSS has noticeably increased. Not only around her eyes but also around her anus. She herself is a milky white grey with a couple of freckles. Her two grey foals (under 5yo) currently do not show signs of FPSS and have no pink skin.

Her half brother (same dam) with a common sE ancestor on the sire side also has pink pigmentation through his white, few freckes coat but has not shown FPSS around his eyes nor anus. He does show 'spots' on his muzzle. He too shares the same diet, however his supplementation started after he was born. He is in a paddock during day and in an open stable at night or during prolonged rainy times.

'tis a shame about the loss of the pigmentation thread from the old forum. I placed similiar information there.

Dear Princess Alia Al Hussein,

I believe it. Supplementation of copper might stimulate the pigment turn-over and have an effect in some horses. But it is only ONE factor, I think, and the main problem seems to be a genetic one.

Best regards

Dear Diana, interesting story but truly I do not think that this is a case of inheritance when the horse wasn't born with it and only got it at an elder age! Their must be some deficiency in the horses diet, I'm convinced of it!

Barbara, what you sugest was also sugested to me by Judy but to be honnest I'm not entirely sure of this theory. Here in the Gulf is to hot to put the horses out in the day so they are out all night! We do have a fantastic moon shine here! Anyhow, maybe its a wide range of things together but I have it seen comming and going!

I don't mind a breeding between gray horses but you should consider the skin of course and I do think that every so often the use of a coloured horse is advisable. I love gray coloured horses but not when they are born pink! Unless of course their overall other qualities make the pink look a small problem!

Bart.

Melchior (Mamluck x Mamsahi by Ghazal) had pigmentation problems. This happened to him as a weaned foal. His grandsire Hadban Enzahi (and other family members) had a similar condition. No supplement helped - and everything was tried over a long period of time, including copper / iodine etc. Strangely, only a fraction of Melchior's offspring inherited the problem.

I have also seen a rapid loss of pigment occur in a dark bay horse and (as one might expect) proper vitamin-vitamin supplements put the condition right within 12 weeks.

It would seem that there is no hope of improvement in horses which inherit the condition, although exactly HOW it is inherited and/or passed on, remains a mystery.

Paul

Hi Paul
I have never seen this problem in a Bay/Chestnut/Black.

I still think there are two type of cases, as mentioned earlier in these posts. We have a lot of greys, they are all sort of related. And none of themares have anything, yet two of our stallions only show a few small small spots on their body, not in the face, during the hot summer (they are out day and night) and these go away when fall comes. I can onloy see these when bathing the horse.

We have 335 days a year sunshine here in Florida
so may it does have something to do with it. anyway, we do nothing against it, leave it alone.
We never had a foal born with it, nor a young horse.
It's those who were older horses, who also never had anything as youngsters..

Have a niced day
hansi

Hi,

I have a 2 year old 3/4 Egyptian gelding that started to go pink at 18 months. As soon as he did we put him on seaweed.
The black came back over winter but has now gone again, he has large pink patches on his muzzel and around his eyes.

I also bred his half and 3/4 brothers ( both have perfectly black faces ) as does his dam and sire.

Could it be his breeding? he is a MA Alishah x Ansata Halim Shah grandson. But as I said I have his dam, and half brother are here, I sold his 3/4 brother as a two year old and they are all fine.

Louise

Hi Hansi,

2 Füchse + 1 Rappen, alle SE kenn ich
die starke Pigmentfehler an den Augen und an der Nase haben.
Scheint aber wohl ehr die große Ausnahme zu sein

Gruß,
Miri

Dear Dr Wigger, I see what you mean, yes there may well be a genetic problem if it is showing up a lot in the family. There do indeed seem to be some families in which the problem appears all over the body. Sincerely, Alia

Hiya Bart – thanks for your frankness. Personally, I can’t say for sure either way. There was a study done by a vet here in Australia, who is an equine skin specialist who suggests the inheritance factor is open to debate even within the veterinary profession. I understand there was no conclusions to his study, or rather any which were published in a major way for the general public. One of the points the vet makes, is owners of horses with this syndrome are not forth-coming!

My thoughts - consider the greying out process – the horse is not usually born grey. The individual fades to grey or looses its hair colour pigmentation to become grey/white. This process can take a few months to quite a few years. Yet the process is governed by a genetic factor. I feel the same could apply to the Fading Pink Skin Syndrome ~ fading being the operative word. Sometimes the condition is reversible, other times not.
I’ve just been reviewing some photos – 4yrs ago, last year and looking at my mare today > I could suggest, the FPSS has ‘mirrored' her graying process. Now that she’s white grey ie no black hairs, the FPSS is becoming very noticeable. This could also be a coincidence!
Another point to consider – a horse’s coat colour reaches maturation around 5yrs +, overall maturation can go beyond 10years – who’s to say what genetic influences start and when?

I’ve heard of chestnuts having FPSS and at one stage I asked for people with horses with this condition to contact me. But alas, there were only a few responses.

Thank you Diane. Please keep me posted if you have new toughts, I can follow the ideas it looks logical.

Paul, Bart and all,

I saw this with the *Carmargue bays if they were kept in too much they would begin losing pigment very oddly round the eyes and all the way down the face. But here, as hot as California can get (we have known 120 degrees F in the shade) we never had it because we let the horses stay out during the day and evening, as well. They could of course, go in the shade but still enjoyed the sun's rays-ultra violet light. Perhaps that is the key to the problem...Ultra Violet? Or some other element of the sun's rays that helped in our case. In the horrifically hot environs of Arizona, some of the old timers would leave their horses out until 10:30 in the morning and then bring them in until dark. And I never ever saw it there. Try sunlight or a controlled equivalent (sun lamps can be so dangerous, but brief sessions might work...?) or if really worried, I'd be happy to contact UC Davis and try to track down the vet who'd made the study.

Gari

A Chestnut SE-mare for Hansi

Liebe Frau Anders,

... interessant!!! Verraten Sie uns, wer das ist bzw. die Abstammung. Wenn hier im Forum nicht möglich, verraten Sie es mir privat?

Daniel.Wigger@t-online.de

I know a (human) woman who started losing pigment at or around the menopause, which would suggest it has something to do with hormones. It is horrible since even in the mild climate where she lives, she has to be covered up completely all the time when she goes out, in oder to prevent serious sunburn. I don't know if it occurred to relatives of her, I don't think so. But if it has to do with hormones, it may be that the genetic link is to be found in that or a similar direction. Perhaps this also plays a role with horses?

interesting thought Joe. I hadn't thought about hormones. Could explain a few things for about my mare!

Bterlaan,

Interesting! I just met a woman and her mother and she said that her mother got it at menopause as well as grandmother, and great-grandmother. She was visiting a doctor to see if there wasn't something that could be done. Wonder if they take estrogen replacement ,if that would help in humans and horses too?

Gari

Interesting, but only a thought, there are too many ifs. And I don't think that the problem in horses is restricted to mares, but there may be multiple casues, of course, like already pointed out above. A genetic link in itself may have mutiple causes again, it is just not simple. Definitely, for quite some horses a diet supplement (eg copper) will be effective and it is always worth a try, but in some horses there may be a hereditary problem that may in itself not be consistently caused by one genetic fault, but rather by a number, or acombination of faults.

Recently I read an article about a (human) genetic problem when a gene was lacking or contained a fault However,there was a patient who had a normal gene. Research showed the normal gene for some reason just did not seem to function. The reason was, as they found out, a faulty neighbouring gene which was too short, so that part of the correct but non-functioning gene was read wrongly. Well well, I never said it was simple, did I?

Hallo,

(sorry – leider kann ich das nicht in Englisch, aber vieleicht kann das ja jemand übersetzten)

Seit ca. 1 ½ Jahren habe ich eine Blutänemie (Eisenmangel) , enstanden durch eine Entzündung der Magenschleimhaut, und das die Nahrung dadurch nicht richtig verarbeitet wird, und der Körper somit die Nährstoffe u.s.w. nicht nutzen kann + unterversorgt wird.
Zusammen damit bekam ich an den Hüften + den Armen helle Pigmentflecke, die bestimmt irgendwie damit zusammenhängen. (Ich wurde auch trotzdem ich das gleiche wie immer aß ,noch dünner als ich sowieso schon bin -da mein Stoffwechsel anscheinend eh schon immer auf Hochtouren läuft).
Der Eisenmangel ist mit Hilfe des Arztes so gut wie behoben, mein normales Gewicht kann ich jetzt halten, aber die hellen Flecken sind geblieben. In meiner gesamten Familie/Verwandschaft hat/hatte noch keiner Pigmentflecken.

Gruß,
Miri

http://www.netdoktor.de/krankheiten/fakta/...ngelanaemie.htm

Hallo Yvonne

Could you please send me a contact number or e-mail in connection with this medicine that you used?

P.L.

Man weiß doch inzwischen, dass die Pigmentstörungen von Haut und Haaren in Verbindung stehen mit Kupfermangel.

aus dem www:

Leicht erkennbar stellt sich der Kupfermangel in Form der sogenannten „Kupferbrille“ dar. Die Pferde verlieren die Pigmentierung rund um die Augen bis zu den Nüstern. Es erfordert etwas mehr Sachkenntnis, den Kupfermangel am Fell und der Haut zu erkennen, wenn klare Entfärbungen um die Augen nicht vorliegen. Insbesondere bei Dunkelbraunen oder Rappen zeigt sich der Kupfermangel in deutlichem Hellerwerden des Deckhaares. Bei Füchsen treten zu Beginn des Kupfermangel gerne rosafarbene Punkte oder rosafarbene Schattierungen in sensiblen Hautbereichen - zwischen Augen und Nüstern oder zwischen den Hinterbeinen und unter dem Schweif - auf.

Viel heimtückischer ist ein nach außen hin nicht sichtbarer Kupfermangel. Neben Leberschäden, kann der Kupfermangel zu Osteoporose und Arthrose führen.
Offensichtliche Schädigungen durch Kupfermangel, wie Verformungen oder erhöhte Brüchigkeit im Knochenaufbau, wurden in Futtermangelversuchen bei Nutztieren hinreichend bewiesen. Sie zeigen jedoch nur die Spätfolgen dieses Mangels und weisen entfernt auf die Beteiligung von Kupfer an der Bildung von Kollagen und Elastin hin.
Nährstoffmängel zeigen sich in verschiedenen Nuancen und in verschiedenster Form und es ist schwer, leichte Mängel früh zu erkennen. Der Übergang vom Mangel hin zu einer „Erkankung“ ist fließend. Ein Kupfermangel kann auch einfach mit Schwäche und Müdigkeit beginnen.

Wichtige Funktionen im Stoffwechsel übernimmt nicht nur Eisen, sondern auch Kupfer bei der Bildung der roten Blutkörperchen.
Die Beteiligung von Kupfer an der Ausbildung des zentralen Nervensystems zeigt, wie wichtig der ausgewogene Kupfergehalt für die nervliche Gesundheit des Pferdes ist. Kupfermangel kann zu Entzündungen und zum Absterben von Nervengewebe führen.

Kupfer greift in das Immungeschehen ein
Kupfer steht im Zusammenhang mit der Darmgesundheit. Beobachtet werden oft sinkende Kupferwerte nach langem Wurmbefall. Bekannt sind auch Erkrankungen des rheumatischen Formenkreises, die einerseits mit Kupfermangel und andererseits mit Darmproblemen in Verbindung gebracht werden.

Kupfer ist u.a. am Histaminabbau beteiligt. Tatsächlich zeigen Blutuntersuchungen beim Allergiker gerne enorme Kupfermängel. Als Bestandteil der kupferhaltigen Superoxiddismutase arbeitet Kupfer als Coenzym beim Abfangen von Sauerstoffradikalen. Insgesamt wird deutlich, daß Kupfer einen großen Einfluß auf das Immunsystem hat. Die Referenzwerte für die Blutserumwerte schwanken von Labor zu Labor. Erfahrungsgemäß sollte der Blutserumwert des Pferdes (und übrigens auch des Menschen) nicht unter 110µg/dl bzw. nicht unter 16 µmol/l fallen.

Der Kupferbedarf eines erwachsenen, 600 kg schweren Warmblutpferdes beträgt 60 bis 90 mg pro Tag. Dieser Bedarf wird i.Allg. nur bei guter Grundfütterung mit Heu und Stroh, ausgehend von einer ausreichenden Kupferverfügbarkeit des Bodens, gedeckt. Anorganische Kupferverbindungen in Kraft- oder Mineralfutter werden unsicher aufgenommen und können einen Mangel nicht ausgleichen. Organische Verbindungen sind anorganischen Verbindungen in jedem Fall vorzuziehen. Zu hohe Calciumgaben bremsen dabei die Aufnahme von Kupfer

Howdy,

Many years ago I had an Ansata Shah Zaman son here, who was out of a full sister to Shimmering Star, who had fairly severe pigment loss around the eyes. We used Copper tablets that were purchased at a health food store and they cleared it up considerably, but not all the way.

As a bit of history, *Zarife (Ibn Samhan x Mahroussa) was legendary for passing on pigmentation problems. His daughter, Zareyna (x Raseyna by *Raseyn), produced the full siblings Sotep and Rose of Raswan, both sired by *Raffles. Sotep passed on the same pigmentation problems his grand-sire passed, and the Sotep offspring were particularly easy to spot as they had the loss all around their eyes and quite often times into their muzzle. At Comar Arabians, the home of Azraff, Garth Buchanan had the stunning old Sotep daughter, Nehessa (out of Nefertiti by Tut Ankh Amen). Consistently the only Azraff offspring that had any pigmentation problems were out of the Sotep daughters, of which there were many that he covered. The Nehessa offspring had it particularly bad, my guess is because Nehessa's dam, Nefertiti, was sired by Tut Ankh Amen who was out of *Roda, a maternal sister to the dam of *Zarife.

Does anyone know if the grey Babson horses are prone to this condition?

Jim Robbins
R-Farm

Interesting enough some of the bay Babson horses had severe loss of pigmentation like the UK import The Shah.

I believe University of California/Davis did a study on this. I"ll check their archives and see if I can find any articles.

I believe they found it is a problem in few gray horses. They either carry the gene or they don't. The ones who do carry the gene don't always develop lack of pigmentation.
They believed in the gray horses who did carry the gene it came out under stress.

Apparently, stress is enough to cause a chain reaction which leads to lack of pigmentation. Possibly horses that carry the gene if hauled constantly, or shown heavily or kept in a stressful environment may develop this problem.

But the trickier question was what does a horse consider stressful? Apparently what is not stressful for one may be more stressful for the other.

I'll have to find the article but it was very interesting. Does this make sense to anyone who had a horse with this problem??

bumping this up to ask does this affect a horse as far as showing or standing at stud?

The dermatological term for this condition is VITILIGO. It is a problem of loss of pigmentation in humans, horses, dogs, cats, etc. The probably is a genetic predisposition. It can start as a spot or two around the eyes, muzzle and anus. It may or may not "spread" over wider areas.

To add to my previous post: There is an Andelusian at our barn a grey who was born in Spain who was gelded and sold because of this condition. They would not show or breed him so he was sent to the US. He was trained there as a Dressage Master.

PS: My youngest daughter has a small spot on her cheek that she covers with her hair and makeup. She seems to have developed it as a toddler and it seems to be fading as she's reaching 30.

Yes Barbara thank you I have done alot of reading on it tonite and what causes it as well in humans and horses... basically they do'nt know if it's dietary, environmental (sunlight) or stress induced as well as hereditary I do wonder though as it doesn't seem to cause anything other than lack of pigment and of course sunburn, would this be considered a fault deemed only solvable by gelding? That seems a bit harsh.. there are alot more things I'd geld for first I think

I have seen pigmentation loss in a chestnut Crabbet/Egytpian stallion, though it was very mild. My mare Basra Bint Balad started losing pigmentation very young, at 2 years of age. Her parents, *Ibn El Balad and *Morawya were both homozygous for grey. Balads owner told me that he had started to lose pigmentation, and offered a simple solution that I have tried & never seen fail. Have your feed store order whole buckwheat seed, & add apx. 1/2 cup to the feed each day.

It works slowly, maybe 4-6 weeks, depending on how much color has been lost. And it is not permanent; the skin starts to turn pink again after a while if you stop. However, I have since noticed with Basra, at least, that adding freshly ground whole flaxseed does the same thing. So with her, at least, it seems to be nutritional.

It is interesting to note that some of Basras' realtives in Germany also had this condition, but as we live in the Mojave desert of S. California, doubt that sunshine is a factor, at least for us.

Sandy

Donna, I agree that gelding for this reason alone seems like an overreaction, but if you are breeding for horses without "defects", perhaps culling is the answer. Vitiligo is a "condition" by definition. In the Andelusian world it is a "defect". I guess it depends upon the judgment of the breeding community and the judging community.

I have used a product called Copperplex with GREAT success for this condition, although in the case of my gelding it was very minor. I have recommended it to several other people and it worked in three of the four people that I know of that have tried it. Two of them are chestnut, mine is grey, the other two are also grey and it worked on one of them but not the other - however I think this particular horse has vitiligo not pigment loss.

It is available in the UK - do not confuse it with Copper-Plex as this is a different product.

Product Info
http://www.hhss.biz/store/erol.html

Copperplex
MINERAL DEFICIENCY??

The levels of copper found in many pastures, hay and common feedstuffs is often too low to meet daily requirements.
Copperplex has been formulated to help prevent such imbalances. Lack of copper in the diet can result in impaired muscle function, anaemia, coat depigmentation and developmental orthopaedic disease.
Copperplex is a unique combination of highly available organic and inorganic copper sources, allowing for highly efficient absorption and utilisation.
Copper deficiency can result in:
-Developmental orthopaedic disease (DOD)
-Impaired muscle function, which may restrict freedom of movement
-A compromised immune system
-Reduced synthesis of haemoglobin, which may result in anaemia
-Progressive coat depigmentation and decolouration (pale circular patches, white rings around the eyes.)
Copperplex is a unique combination of organic copper proteinates and inorganic copper sulphate providing a combination of highly available copper sources. Recent research has shown that a mixture of organic and inorganic compounds results in the greatest efficiency of copper absorbtion and correction of any deficiency.
Copperplex contains Zinc that helps promote enzyme activation and skin, hair, blood and bone development. By using a combination of organic and inorganic zinc copperplex helps ensure the vital zinc : copper ratio is maintained.
Copperplex also contains vitamin E (an anti-oxidant promoting reproductive efficiency and maintenance of muscular integrity,) and selenium (at very low levels using bio available seleno-yeast). Selenium is an anti-oxidant that works alongside vitamin E in maintaining muscle cell membrane integrity

Uses:
· For horses in training to maintain freedom of movement
· For broodmares and youngstock to maintain healthy growth and development
· For all horses and ponies in copper deficient areas where any of the indications may arise such as coat depigmentation
· Arabian horses that are particularly prone to coat depigmentation due to lack of sufficient copper.

It's £24 a tub

Vera

Wondering if they sell this in the states? I have someone who could get it in the UK and ship it if needed, but am wondering if they sell it over here to save some shipping.. how big is a "tub"? We have very low selenium levels here and wondered if that had something to do with it. Selenium has to be fed through with Vitamin E so they can process it so here's two of the three out of the way

Still curious how this would affect a horses marketability?

Melatonin
is a neurohormon produced in the Epyphysia of the brain. It will be produced more in darkeness than when it's sunshine it's a day-night-rythm homrone. It's a juniorhormone that means it's higher produced in the youth and will decrease with older age. Under stress, unnormal sleeping habits the production can be in disorder.
For these cases it can be healed with other circumstances and as it's a hormon often the indgredients are unsufficent like f.e. copper, zinc, FE 3+, essential Aminoacids so it can be supplied.
In these cases the pigment loss is not just located around eyes mouth like rings and it was never to see any kind of inflammation.
It's antagonist is MSH (Melanocyt stimulationg hormone) produced in the Hypophysis (brain), it's steerd by MRH (MSH releasing hormone), produced in the Hypothalamus (brain). They are peptid hormones that means an inbalance of essential Aminoacids can inhibit the production of Melanocyts.
It can be that in the brain one of the hormon producing aereas is not normal functioning as a predisposition of a family but there is a big chance here that it can be a luck in the nutrition.

Vitiligo
are white spots on the skin they become usually bigger during the time. It's here discussed an autoimmun disease, like f.e. Lupus erythematosus but also systemic hormon disease like Diabetes mellitus, Hyper- or Hypothyreosis or Hypoparathyreosis.

In auto immun disease there is an inflammation from very discret to very strong. Often the depigmentation stays for ever.

In both cases there is no infection involved.


Leukoderm
looks like Vitligo that means a depigmentation of the skin. Here the cause was an inflamation through causative organism . There was in the beginning an erythem (soft to strong red skin, soft to strong swollen skin). Usually this can come to a repigmentation when the inflammation of the skin was not too deep into the skin, in humans this white Leukoderm-spots are seen after an infect of Syphillis, Lepra, atopic Eczema (bacterial infects, viral infects)

Pinta or Pitryasis versicolor
is more ore like Leukoderm just there is cronical infection of the skin through treponema, a skin parasit.

Here the white spots are more or less the same after the inflammation is over, they don't become bigger. They are very often surrounded where there is skin/mucose: like f.e. around the eyes, around the mouth, muzzels, praeputium, vaginalips, a....

For horses very tipicaly is the medical term of "pinke eye". This is often seen after an infection of EVA (Equine Virus arteritis), even the horse wasn't remarkable sick. A lot of horses in the east of Europe and Spain have this. When the deep parts of the skin wass involved it will stay for ever, otherwise it can become dark again.

"Horserace Betting Levy Board 1997 - 1999)
......What are the symptoms of EVA?
The variety and severity of clinical signs of EVA vary widely. Infection may be obviouse or there may be no signs at all. Even when there are no signsd, infection can still be transmitted and stallions might still become shedders.

The main signs that are seen include fever, lethargy, deression, swelling of the lower legs. conjunctivitis ("pink eye" as result of)sweling around the eye socket and upper eyelid, nasal discharge, "nettle rash" and swelling of the scrotum and mammary gland. In pregnant mares, asbortion may occur.............."

In case it happens to your horse it's important to well observe the horse, just the sligtest exanthem, swallen legs, the localisation, the developpement a.s.o. so you can figure out in what direction you have to treat.

Hope I could help a bit

Christina

I have read many times that copper deficiency is a cause for the rings around the eyes, or rather that "spectacles" are a sign of copper deficiency. However, tha tis only ONE cause. I have no doubt that there are other factors involved as well, which may also be genetic. Some horses will sooner have a problem with copper deficiency than other horses and that difference may be genetic, for instance. It ma yhave to do with the metabolism of minerals, such as copper. I think it is much more complicated and that copper supplements may help in a number of cases, but not in all.

Depends on whether it's seen as a defect or not I suppose Since there is no definite cause or cure for it I'd say it's just something you learn to live with. It would be like culling for white feet, or culling for bloody shoulder marks.. or culling for pinto markings and huge white blazes (which I personally don't like on horses) If it can be helped by dietary then that's great.. if not then oh well

It doesn't affect vision or health.. it's just a "thing"... so why cull an otherwise beautiful, wellbred horse for a few pinky marks? goodness.. there are plenty more important and priority things that should be culled for that do affect more than just how a horse looks

Agreed. I know the Andalusian community culls for vitiligo.

It must be genetic to some extent - while I am sure pigmentation loss can be corrected by certain vitamins and minerals, there must be some horses that need more "correcting" than others? Didn't Marbach bring Gharib into their programme to combat the pigmentation problems in the mare herd courtesy of Hadban Enzahi?
I too have a suspicion that it is more common in herds that breed grey to grey for many generations, although I have seen pigmentation loss in chestnuts.
While I wouldn't be overly concerned about a horse with pigmentation loss (providing everything else was okay), I think it is important to bear in mind when breeding, as good black skin is supposed to be an important part of Arabian type.

definitely hoogie However, how do you explain that to the people breeding for purebred pintos? Not that I have anything against body spots mind you lol just an analogy

A very dear friend of mine brought up a very valid point this morning / last night in a pm on another board... since this tends to start to show up around puberty (age 2 or 3) for young horses sometimes, could it have something to do with the delicate balance of hormones and minerals... perhaps the stress of puberty is causing their bodies to use more of one vitamin or mineral than the other.. something along that line? Just a theory but it makes sense to me. I know there are people on this board that are far more experienced or knowledgeable about that side of things than I and would love their input on this