I had a lady call me about my upcoming 2005 foals. She wanted to come out and look at my mares and stallion to know what to expect this spring. When she got here she just kept looking at my egyptian related mares or the one polish bred mare. When I asked her why she was not interested in any of my SE's, this was her response.

"She really wanted a SE but was told by another breeder that the only way to get a good one was to pay over $20 000! She does not have this kind of money so figured she would just get as close to SE as she could."

What I don't understand is why breeders keep doing this? When people are complaining that we don't have enough new people coming into our breed and we are stereotyped as being snotty etc? This is why!

There are still nice mares, stallions and geldings out there without paying those prices.

We can only keep selling to ourselves for so long before we all have the same thing and hit a dead end.

This sort of talk makes me mad too. There are some great horses out there at reasonable prices.

I was , note the [WAS] looking for a SE mare , not for investment, not to sell foals...I have been quoted 20,000 to 45,000....Some have no foaling history..And all are just trained to lead.. Well I come through the 80,s and I could,nt buy what I wanted then either...So typically it seems to me the investment breeder of the SE is mirrering the breeder of the 80,s..Just my take on the situation

It will take a long time for the perception that Arabians, and especially SE's, are a "rich man's horse" to disappear. This is a left over from the 80's when they were selling at such inflated prices. This perception is one of the major hurdles we have to deal with in interesting people in our horses. People never even look at Arabians because they think they can't afford them. This was one of the big things that held me back for so long and the main reason I got started with Morgans instead of my first preference which was the Arabian. There are lots of nice geldings out there at reasonable prices and even mares and fillies if you take the time to look. We need to find a way to let the horse buying public become aware of this.

It is all relative to what you want and what you think the horse is worth. If you are the type of person that is impressed by the high price tag and the Farm name and you have money to burn...well why not, eh? ("You" is not anybody in particular, just speaking in general terms here).

It's all about the have and the have-nots.And..people's perceptions that something that costs more should be better than something that cost's less.

A friend of mine has a lovely small herd of Straight Egyptians. I doubt that she has paid over 5000.00 for any of them and they are excellent quality, confirmation and type. As well, they are by well known sires and dams. She has begun her breeding program and has produced some wonderfully correct and beautiful SE's that would stand up to any 50,000 horse out there.She sells them based on what they are worth...not on what she has put into them...otherwise...she would have a large herd of un-sellable horses! Simple fact of life. Being a responsible breeder she will not keep more horses than she can properly take care of. And, by getting her stock out there she is on the road to establishing herself through good business practice and providing quality stock and realistic prices. It is people like her and the many others that practice this way that will re-introduce he straight Egyptian Arabian back to the puplic as a horse worth buying.

Back in the day when these horses were first imported I could understand the owners asking above market prices because of he incredible costs of getting them to this continent. But after 30+ years and numerous breeding establishments stemming from this importation it is time to put realistics prices on.

And then of course the "Black 80's and early 90's". The money Farms, the bogus sales, the scams and the fallout (starved abandoned horses). These horses became a commodity, nothing more than a piece of paper. They were sorely exploited. precious only to the few individuals who knew of their true value as an outstanding breed of horse and made every effort to purpetuate their existence and give them back their dignity.

And now, we still have people out there who think or have been told that they can fetch 10's of thusands of dollars for this straight egyptian filly or colt because it is by this famous horse or that one and it's sire or dam sold for a g'zillion dollars at some sale in the 80's.

There was a straight egyptian mare for sale out West. I inquired about her...her asking price was along 3500.00. The owner, a young girl got on this forum and many others and asked what this mare was worth. Various people told her anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 dollars. Never mind that she paid 600 dollars at auction. Never mind that the mare did not have excellent confirmation. This young lady called me back shortly there-after and said that I could have her at 10,000 as this was a steal of deal. Okay, so maybe the mare was worth it maybe she was not...this young lady had no clue and based on what some strangers on the internet told her...she changed the price of her mare.....and still has her for sale.

So really, I think the smaller breeder, through persistense and common sense will eventually change the market perception of these horses. I think the key to that is to get those geldings out into the real world. Get them into working homes, show homes, family homes etc. They are the true ambassadors and they will define our beloved SE as a wonderful working partner and companion. Advertised at realistic prices, these horses will have a chance to change the public perception and pave the way
for an actual market. JMHO.

Cindy

I think it keeps happening because a LOT of breeders actually BELIEVE that their horses are all worth that kind of money just because they are S.E.!! Somebody long ago told them this... that's what they have been telling themselves all along and they believe it.

Sure some horses are worth it, but not just because they are S.E.'s. For example... I had three fillies, full sisters, not S.E.'s but amazing double Jamaal pedigrees, with halter champion dam and sire. The first two were drop dead gorgeous and worth a lot of money. The third is nice but not worth as much as the others and I KNOW this and it's okay. They still all look the same on paper but that doesn't make them ALL worth a lot of money. THE INDIVIDUAL horse AND the pedigree have to be great.

Many breeders just want to believe what they were told in the beginning and can't honestly see the horse in their barn. Does that make any sense?? It's really early in the morning :-)

Yes, Alison, it makes a lot of sense. I know that I've probably given some breeders heart failure, when they've asked me to do evaluations on their horses. I look at the pedigree and the horse's type, conformation and movement and give a realistic appraisal. This sometimes does not fit in with what they had been told when sold a mare such as "You'll be able to sell every foal she drops for $40,000". Eventually, to those intelligent enough begin to realize that a mediocre colt has to be a gelding, fetching maybe $1500 at weaning or up to $2500 as a yearling. A three year old gelding that is broken in can fetch up to $5000 with show performance potential.

My daughter has two fabulous SE geldings in training for dressage—both by Mahksous KA First Knight and KA Eastwood. First Knight is already competing in Second Level dressage and his value would be the same as any good dressage horse, he in my opinion could probably reach Prix St. George level.

Liz, Alison,

Exactly my point.

I feel that common sense, realistic value and informed decisions are a good foundation for a potential sale on both the buyer and sellers intentions. There will always be a High, Med and Low end of any market but it is usually the Middle/Low end that distributes the product to a wider base and makes it possible for the High end to sell their product as well. I certainly don't profess to be an ecomonmic major but this makes sense to me.

In any horse market, the more training and experience a horse has will raise it's value much quicker than an un-trained, inexperienced young or old horse. A person may pay 1000.00 for a un-handled grade horse but would be willing to pay 3 or 5000 or more if that horse were properly trained (in any discipline) and handled. I don't think it is any different with the SE's, although there are those that feel otherwise, I am sure.

And this is not to take away from the blood sweat and tears of many an honest hardworking breeder out there, big or small. It's just that if we want the buying public to recognize and buy our SE's then we must make them more accessible and useable. And I do not believe in the addage that if a person pays more money for a horse, they will give it a better home....just go look at the stockyards and rescue pleas from people and organizations. Money and prestige are worthless to the horse itself. I think they don't care where they live or who they live with as long as a good, healthy life is provided for them. Not much to ask on their part, is it?

Despite all of that I think that there are alot of people out there making it happen and I also think that the SE will survive because of it. It's not all doom and gloom...just might be a little frustrating at times.

Cindy