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The results for the world championship endurance just came in.

The 160 km race was won by HH Sheikh Hazza bin Sultan Al Nahyan of the UAE. He finished the race with an average speed of 22.68 km/h !! He finished his race in less than 8 hours ! Wow !

The Belgium endurance team ended up with bronze .. a very good prestation !
Hello ............. laugh.gif laugh.gif

and what about the Dutch team ??????????????

rolleyes.gif or sad.gif sad.gif

Please ............Message

all regards,
The results for the team is
The dutch team didn't finish. Two horses were retired during the race, one dutch rider (they only had 3 members in the team) finished with a 37th place.
biggrin.gif Any Pictures biggrin.gif
Does anyone know the names of the Belgians and more info about their horses?
I've heard that Canada came fourth!

Great job Canada!! We're proud of you! biggrin.gif
I know there was another topic about speed and endurance... anyway, at this world championship, the world record for 160 km was beaten again. The first four riders all came in at an average speed of 22 km/hour or more, whilst the record was set (only last year) at 21.82 km/hour

For belgium there were 5 participating riders, and 4 got to the finish. Takhar was unfortunatly out of the race, as he was not admitted to start by the vets. :

32th place Liesens Leonard with Orfeo 16.96 km/h - Orfeo is a purebred arabian, straight polish, bred by Haras d'Iviers (the big endurance stud in Belgium) by of their foundation sire Pedant (Gondolier) out of Opala (Habor)
33th place Boulanger Karin with Allel 16.96 km/h - Allel is a purebred arabian by world champion stallion Warandes Plakat out of Elina (Numizmat) : Russian with a dash of English
35 th place Boulanger Jacques with Shannon 16.58 km/h - Shannon is a cross from arabian with a trotter
36 th place Molitor Jean-Louis with Fidji 16.58 km/h - partbred arabian by Zatin el Usm (Kilimanjaro)
on 188 inscriptions and 175 staters. Only 55 riders got to the finish (only a third !!!)

For pictures, go to
Hi : ALL Great !

I think the speed is extreemly high and great riders and horses !! ohmy.gif

One of the Dutch JOAN Eikelboom finished indeed on the 37th place. sad.gif She took with her 14 year old Arabian SALOMO DJINTI a little 10 hours.

Gratulations to all who ended the finish !! laugh.gif laugh.gif
and of course to the winning teams !

Congratulation to all horses and riders, congratulation to the winners and particularly congratulation to the ITALIAN TEAM biggrin.gif
An American Breeder
Would some transpose the speed into mph for me? And, of the other horses that did not finish, were there any reasons or stats given as to why they did not finish?

Not trying to start any wars; I am merely asking a question.
Liz Salmon
To convert kms to mph mutiply the kms by .60. When I watched the 2002 ride in Qatar, the vet. checks were very strict, which is why most horses don't make the distance.
Arabian North
Wow is it for sure Canada placed fourth? One of our club members is with the Canadian Team, Myna Cryderman. Anyone know if she rode, if so were she placed or did she finish?
Arabian North
Forgot to ask in my last post, who was the winning Sheik riding?
All results and details on
Forgot to ask in my last post, who was the winning Sheik riding?

He was riding Hachim (Achim's Silver Magic x Hamsfah (Hanif)) a arabian stallion and 100% Crabbet.

Greetings Emma
Oak Lawn Arabians
I just heard (from a reliable source) that Hachim was disqualified for not passing the drug test.
It is indeed true... Hachim had a positive drug test .. here is the press release :

DUBAI - Shaikh Hazza bin Sultan Al Nahyan was stripped of his FEI Endurance World Championship gold medal after his horse, Hachim, was tested positive for prohibited substances. Dr Shaikh Sultan bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, President of the UAE Equestrian and Racing Federation, told reporters that the horse has been tested positive for a prohibitive substance in the mandatory blood test carried out after the race. “A second blood sample will be done on the horse and if that was negative, Shaikh Hazza bin Sultan will be reinstated as the winner and returned the gold medal,” said Dr Shaikh Sultan.

His disqualification gave Barbara Lissarague of France the gold, the silver to General Shaikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Crown Prince of Dubai and UAE Minister of Defence, and the bronze to Shaikh Hazza bin Zayed Al Nahyan.

Shaikh Mohammed added another title to his impressive collection of endurance awards when his nine-year-old home bred bay gelding, Nashmi, was adjudged the Best Conditioned Horse of the championship. “He’s a home bred horse and I preserved him to the best of my ability to finish the race after it turned into a strong canter for most of the 19-kilometre final loop. He’s the world champion and watch out for him when he comes out next,” Shaikh Mohammed told the gathering after receiving the award.

Nikolay Melbard of Kazakhstan was earlier disqualified for a different reason after completing the race in ninth on nine-year-old stallion Blesk, promoting Shaikh Rashid bin Mohammed to eighth and Shaikh Salman bin Saqer Al Khalifa of Bahrain to ninth, Australian Peter Toft to 10th and another UAE rider Ali Mohammed Al Muhairi to 11th in the final standings.

The 10th edition of the world’s premier race saw 61 riders complete the 160-kilometre race from a field of 175.

Lissarague completed the course in a record seven hours and four minutes and the last to come in was Canadian Daphne Richard astride her 18-year-old Arabian gelding Cuchulain.

She completed the trip in 12 hours 49 minutes and 24 seconds and helped Canada finish fourth in the team championship behind Italy, Australia and Belgium, the only nations to finish with the Shaikh Hazza bin Sultan’s disqualification brought a bizarre ending to the championship that produced a spectacular finish here at the Dubai International Endurance City on Thursday.

Saturday’s gala award’s ceremony enthralled the visitors to one of those Arabian Night themes interspersed with lively music and fireworks that lit the desert skies before the presentation of awards.
Please can you check the official FEI website, you will see that Sheikh Hazza Bin Sultan is still the World Champion and his horse also has the title of Best Conditioned Horse. The blood test that was taken was not done by the FEI, therefore it is inconclusive and does not count.

The FEI have published a statement today saying that they have no idea how or why this has happened as the official blood results have
not come back yet.

Until then, he is still World Champion.
This was found in the side of the french endurance riders:

FEI reinstates endurance world champion

January 31, 2005

The FEI has announced that the endurance world championship’s organising committee had no right to disqualify Sheikh Hazza bin Sultan Al Nahyan, who remains the event’s official winner
The mystery about the World Endurance Championship becomes more intricate by the minute. The event's organising committee announced on Saturday that the winner of the ride, Sheikh Hazza bin Sultan Al Nahyan, would be stripped of his gold medal because his horse, Hachim, tested positive for doping. But it turns out the decision was too hasty and, according to the FEI, bin Sultan Al Nahyan remains the official winner.

After Hachim failed its doping test, the organising committee disqualified the Emirates combination and presented the gold medal to the second rider to cross the finishing line, France's Barbara Lissarague, at the award ceremony on Saturday. How

ever, it emerged today (Monday) that the FEI had no prior knowledge of this decision, which, the organising committee was not entitled to take.

“It was all done without knowledge of the FEI. It is clear under FEI rules that [the organising committee] didn't have the right to deal with this case,” says the federation's spokeswoman Muriel Faenza. “The organising committee has no power to disqualify anybody.”

The FEI have now asked the World Endurance Championship's organising committee to explain formally “why the official individual winner was not presented with the medal,” according to Faenza.

The FEI haven't even been officially notified of the results of Hachim's failed doping test. “For the moment, as far as I know, we haven't even received the results of the lab,” says Faenza. “We heard the rumours, but, officially, we have heard nothing as to why the people presented with the medals are not the ones on the official results signed off by the Ground Jury.”

The FEI expect the World Endurance Championship's organising committee to reply today.

Meanwhile, Faenza has confirmed that the inquiry into Hachim's alleged doping case must follow the formal FEI procedure, which was followed, for example, with Ludger Beerbaum and Goldfever 3. Until then, bin Sultan Al Nahyan is the FEI winner.

The row over the gold medal risks to mar an event which made it to the Guinness Book of Records for having the highest number of participants than any other equestrian championship. It also casts a shadow over one of the fastest growing equestrian sports, which doubled the number of international events in the last three years.
Good morning everybody

the Endurance Worldchampionship was quite an unforgetable event, beautiful, exiting but also with a bit of tragedy.

The team winners were :

1) Italy- gold
2) Australia - silver
3) Belgium- bronce

Canada came in fourth, A REMARKABLE finish.Congratulations Canada!

The Individual Winners were:

1) HE Sh Hazza Bin Sultan Al Nahyan- UAE on "HACHIM" 1994
bay Arabian Gelding, Bred by Anne Brown, Gadebrook Arabian Stud,England- Crabbet breeding
Time: 7 HOURS and THREE MINUTES- world record-

2) Barbara Lissarague, France- on "GEORGAT" (1994) grey crossbred mare- TIME: 7 HOURS and FOUR MINUTES (a lovely mare)

3) General shaikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum- UAE
on 'NASHMI" 1996 bay Arabian gelding- home bred- who also won the
Best Conditioned horse award.

4) Shaikh Hazza bin Zayed Al Nahyan - UAE- on "MINDARI AENZAC" grey Arabin Gelding

When a drug test was made, the winner "Hachim" tested positive for a substance. and the UAE immediately withdrew the horse THEMSELVES.
This of course now moved the other three horses a notch upwards, and France thereby won- for the time being- at least.

Personally, I feel it was in a most GALLANT MANNER the UAE treated this issue, because NOBODY in their right mind would believe that
Sheikh Hazza would dope his horse, hoping that he could be the winner, then being tested and eliminated in disgrace.
Therefore, someone had to give this georgeous "Hachim" a substance to do the Sheikh in. I feel certain, that investigation will make a head roll. Everyone felt so bad about the issue, and the public at presentation of the medals was stunned. "Hachim" was brought back to the owner's stables, turned lose into his paddock, and the next day as fresh as a daisy, able to do the trip again.

This gelding is absolutely outstanding, truly a super horse, bred by a wonderful small breeder, Anne Brown, in England, and aquired by M'rsan stables, Abu Dhabi.He is by Achim's Silver Magic (1984)
and out of Hamsfah (1979)- a KUHAYLAN DAJAN by strain. He carries in the fifth generation the Asil blood of Oran (1940), Dargee (1945), Indian Crown (1935), Rythal (1933) and with it the bloodline of Basilisk, Ishtar, Dwarka and Nureddin, etc.

There were 171 starters and it is said only 61 finished AND if correct, that's is simply UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!)
Many of the horses were excellent individual in excellent condition TO start out with. The 100 miles were on a flat surface, no obstacles and to me a very easy ride, with temperatures in the 80's (F). One certainly can not compare this terrain to that of the Tevis Cup or various others in Europe, where there are hills, streets and villages to cross.
Therefore this incredible fast time of 7 hours and 3 minutes has to be judged accordingly.

Coming back to the only "61" horses, which finished, I must state that by enlarge the riding was apolling. I have never seen anything like it. It was to me almost animal cruelty, how these riders were pounding down on the back of these horse like a sack of potatoe with each step, increasing their own body weight by many pounds, and having these lovely horses streched out so badly, an eleastic would have busted in a second. Their riding style was ugly at its best, unkind to the horses, and how these 61 came through is a MIRACle. If I were allowed to recommend, I would say to most all" Please go back to basics, learn to ride, and give your beloved horses a break, if you really care". BUt there was a handful of decent riders amog them,who shall not be addressed by my statement. The French girl rode well.

Again I must conclude, that the only way these wonderful horses would do better, would feel better, if the riders learn the basics of dressage, learn to ride to make their weight feel less, as that of the horses. There simply is no way around it, in my opinion.
Most all riders were "Passengers" on top of their horses, unable to preserve their strength and with it health. I wish I could help them with some lessons. like 6 months thorough training- they for sure would sit different in the saddle and would look like a rider, and not like a monkey on a rolling stone.

Klaus Denart and Lutz Petersen/Germany, took many photos I think and will be able to give more details.

All in all the facilities were superb, the atmosphere warm and kind,
the hospitality second best to none, and the international attandence huge. We all had a wonderful time and thank the UAE for all they have done to make everybody feel so welcome.

So let's see what is going to happen next year in "Aachen"!

All have a nice day
Hansi biggrin.gif

Good evening,
Hello Hansi
You are right, it is UNACCEPTABLE that only 61 riders finished. But the race was not easy. The problem for the horses was the deep sand. We always see it here too, if the horses are trained on hard ground they get problems with the legs, if they come up to the north and have to run in the sand.
You can find a lot of photos on my web-side under :

Have a nice evening Lutz Petersen
Hi lUtz

thank you for posting these incredible lovely photos. Here all of you can study also the riders, and you can see how many "typy" arabs were competing. Actually there were many truly georgeous horses.

Yes Lutz, the sand was deep, like here in Florida almost, but if the rider would have helped their horses through better seats, etc.etc. many, many more could have finished the ride.
The speed produced harder winds, which were NOT combated through a proper position in the saddle. Unfortunately these photos do not show the consistent bumping of the rider onto the horses backs.
Just thinking of it, hurts mine.

I have to salute the breeders/owners for producing such excellent horses, their showing them off as to what they are able to do.
It is just so very, very sad, that so few SEs are under saddle, and with the attitude displayed by some of our posters, no wonder, eh!

thanks again and have a grand day
hansi biggrin.gif
Horse lover
IMO anybody who loves horses does not compete in endurance.

When I first saw an endurance ride I really wanted to do it. The horses looked fit, well and raring to go.

Unfortunately, as Hansi says, alot of the poor things had awful 'passengers' aboard who banged about on their backs for hours.

I saw the first few horses come home and they looked etrememly tired, but OK.

The next endurance I saw I stayed to the end, I was asked to help some of the participants.

It was appalling. I was amongst the vets and I could hear what was going on. The following few days I had more reports from the vets.
and then I found out that in some horses the damage due to exhaustion and dehydration of the organs was not apparent until weeks afterwards.

Thes animals suffer. Some die. Some can never compete again. Far more than you and I know about because of the length of time that they deterioate afterwards.

I'm not talking about the top horses, trainers and riders, but if you don't believe me, go to an endurance ride. Stay to the very end. Go see the last few horses and tell me they're well and haven't suffereds.
Horse lover
I'm sorry, I shouldn't have put 'anybody' who loves horses wouldn't compete in endurance, I feel strongly about it and got carried away.

IMO some obviously do love their horses. But most don't love them enough or atall.
Dear Horselover

I am glad you saw what I did. I have the feeling that many of the riders never had a riding lesson, more or less rode trail, which of course is wonderful, but then got the idea to go endurance racing.
I also dont know if they actually have a coach/trainer, or simply train on their own. I noticed here that some of the horses appeared to be overtrained/worked. They simply cant train every day a 30-50 miler, staying okay. People cant do it either.

Apparently here in the USA I was told, a selection was made from some 75 entries.Those selected had gone through many rides and won or came in in good order. I dont believe it take years to train for a 100 miler, if the horses had proper dressage in him/her for 2 years, then slowly brought up for distance, bit by bit and ready to go as a 6 year old. Often oldermhorses can be started under saddle and could do quite well under proper instructions and guidance.

the horses I saw where by enlarge excellent horses, and tried their utmost, but over a 100 did not make it, some so exhausted, it's unreal. and this exhaustion should not be, not if the horse is properly trained and expertly ridden. during the wars, the cavalery did not have electrolites, nor did the Bedus. So what is happening?

Lutz mentioned that there was deep sand, which is true, but also harder surfaces here and there. However, few engaged the rearends of the horses, obviously did not know how to do this, which created the problem. Thei impossible posture in the saddle made them weigh 200 pounds more, because they did not know how to brace for the wind during that speed.

Another thing I noticed that at each vet check they instantly removed the saddle. We never did this with our hunters, just losened the girth by one notch, as otherwise the back could sweel up. I dont know how much time they had before the vet check. Also I noticed that they poored water over the front of the horse and some over its back. We were taught to always start at the rearend of the horse, the fetlocks- all beeing away the farseth of the heart and then continue the front. Most all were very wet infront, not much behind, indicating they were working on nervous energy, just like many of our show horses.

When some of the riders got off at the vet check, they walked like if they had a cracked egg in their pants under their seat. It looked funny.

I often stated, that a lesser horse under a better rider can readily defeat a better horse under a poor rider.

Also it was not that hot, that such strong dehydration should have taken place. I just wondered, how the cavalery horses in our West got through, riding often days on end- the earlier Indian wars, etc. Or for that metter the Bedus.

If some of the riders read our complaints, hopefully they will at least think to take some proper lessons and withit save their horses in my opinion. I think Paelmchen could help the Germans a lot.

Have a nice day
Hansi biggrin.gif
Several points,first HANSI---I looked for you but did not FIND you!!! Walked all round the hose area but to no avail! Very sorry we did not meet up but glad you enjoyed it. The number of riders who finish- I was told way back that if 1/3 finish it is considered a good result-by officials, mind you. The vetting was rightly strict, and the reasons for vetting out various- mucous membranes not perfect, slight lameness, gut sounds not perfect, pulse recovery too slow, back sore to the touch, etc. We had one horse finish, one was lame on the final lap, one's back felt sore on the penultimate lap ,and the other team one we pulled out after the second loop as the vet asked her to be presented a second time and we felt that if she was dodgy at that stage it was not fair to get her to go on even if she passed the second check. Actually her rider went too fast on the second loop-it was the first 160 ride for all but two of them and it' VERY hard to convince novices that MUCH patience is required.Some of us DO REALLY love the horses! As for the riding, I agree that some of it was quite obviously going to stop the horses in question from finishing-it's amazing to me, but there it is! Best wishes to all, Alia
Good morning dear Princess Alia

Yes, I looked for you too, but it was like grand central station, thousands of people around. Only at the end were we allowed to get on to the area the competitors were stabled. Fortunately I right away met Klaus Denart and Lutz Petersen, the latter had a press card and could get in wherever. I could only see the horses starting and coming back from that bridge. Eileen Verdick was there too, and others I knew and we all had a grand time.

this is just it, "BACK SORE" Mine would be too, if a sack of potatoe would hit my vertebreas each step of the way. We all know what a backache is like, because when it hurts, the rest of the body does too. We cramp up, as will the horse.

I watched your sister and brother in law riding on really lovely horses. But also they need to improve their riding style.
KLaus, Lutz and some other including me already said" we should really open a school and put these riders through the mill".
But then how many would be that strong of mind to go through rigid training,which can be boring at the start. How many would undergo a m/m of 50 longing lessons to learn how to sit, eh?

All sorts of excuses we heard. Facts are that the cavalary horses during wars often were under saddle day and night with little feed or water and many made it. But all were trained in basic dressage and the officers only rode Grand Prix trained Dressage horses. All these horses had basic, solid,honest training in them, and many got through,unless they got a bullet or artillery fire.

I honestly saw some absolutely super horses, athletic and very beautiful/typy. Any one of them with proper training/gymnastic as well as their rider should have made the ride well.

I am very happy that the veterinarians were strict, thanks God, otherwise only 20 would have come through, collapsing before they got back. Personally, the results are unacceptable to me, never seen anything like it in my entire life, and often wonder how many got even killed before they competed. I literally "crinched" when I saw these horses/rider going out and coming back. Who is training these horses and riders? If they have trainers, these should be tested by experts, wherever, and would never allow such unorxedoxed cruel riding. A TB would have never taken it, but the arabs are so forgiving and go until they drop dead. So they are totally taken advantage off.

However, it is good that many of us saw it, and are thinking what we can do about it and help.

another problem is, that at least the team here and may be the canadians do not have any assistance from their organizations/government etc and give their free time, work all day to earn money to pay for the expenses. this IS NOT FAIR.
Each time an Arbaian horse does well, our industry does well.
But our industry here has other ideas, most certainly unrelated to the mental and physical welfare of the Arabians by enlarge. It is the small breeder who works his/her heart out, sacrifices no end,
and so to speak holds the "fort". The day I see one of our prominent large breeders helping out, that's the day when I will sing "Halleluja".! More so, when I see one of their "priceless"
garden ornaments competing. But I guess, I wont live long enough to see it, eh?

Forgive me, I am so sad over so many situations, attitudes of some of our Arbian horse Breeders here, that sometimes my temper runs away with me. They got the bloodlines, have the horses, and wont do a darn thing to show the world what these horses are made off. Or may be they dont have the horses and just create another life, which brings in dollar bills.

Have a grand day and may be we meet somehow again this year somewhere.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Dear Hansi- I think my mistake was asking for you of the USA team rather than the Canadians! I had the stud books for you,but will post them instead-which volumes are you missing? It WAS like Grand Central Station, I know what you mean! As for the sore back, in fairness it was the saddle in this case not the rider-our only experienced one on the team who was properly trained -but that doesn't make it any nicer for the horse!We had our trainer of the past two years leave at the end of November, and were lucky enough to recruit one of our good riders who had been working abroad along with our original French trainer who came as chef d'equipe,but it was a bit late to sort out all the problems we had developed . The rider opted for a saddle he had used successfully before but overlooked the fact that it was a heavy western one and not ideal for that day (he is very light and thought it would be better than lead weights). As for my sister- she entered as an individual for Jordan so as not to compromise the team with any inexperience, but while she leans a little forward I think she is making a good transition from showjumping to endurance and at least stood all the 124 kms she finished in an effort to help the horse. As you say, it's exhausting-I only did a 40 km ride myself in France and was pretty worn out after it! It IS hard for the teams which don't get government or other help-tell me about it! But it IS very satisfying when properly done and horses finish in the good condition which surprises some but IN FACT should be the norm! It's always easy to be wise in hindsight but I think people everywhere are getting more aware of problems and this year although faster I think the horses for the most part looked much better throughout. Two years ago they were strggling on the penultimate lap-it WAS a wet muddy miserable day too which made it tougher in ways, but I think the vets were stricter and the horses better prepared? Your thoughts? Anyway, hope we DO meet up somewher soon. Best wishes, Alia
Goodmorning dear Princess Alia

I see, so there was a confusing with the name of the teams.

Yes, a saddle is MOST important, all equipment is. I must say, that your sister was indeed one of the best riders in the group. Of course, I did not follow her along side, only saw her coming in and going out. If you like, may be you want to contact Lutz Petersen regarding saddle/equipment. He uses "Stuebben" as I have all my life and really like it.
I believe they invented a new one for endurance , Lutz is testing for them.

I will send you a very rare disk of particular training methods, this disk done by one of my teachers in 1960, who was many years honory intructor at the Spanish riding school and with whom I trained every night for 5 years. Please view it and also your sister, and I do not mean to offend here, but it might help. There is nothing like this around, I know off. One never stops learning, including myself. However, methods used since xenophon some 2500 years ago noone has been able to really improve upon. This disk is copied from a bit faded VHS and I found it when going through all my VHS and photos,trying to save as much as possible, so much ruined through the hurricans/humidity etc. and Bill was able to put it on a disk. It will go out to you today. Fortunately we also saved the VHS on the imports of 1969 and 1970 to Canada.

The studbooks I have are volumes I-IV. Will at once bank transfer whatever it costs, so please include an invoice.

I always thought highly of the training of France, Belgium and Italy, althaug not always agreed with the Saumur/French methods, which has a tendency of stiffening the backs of the horses.
As you know, once that is done, it takes a miracle to undo it.

I was so shocked to learn that USA/Canada and may be others do not have any government support for their teams, riding for their country under their flag and had to accept the gift from SH Maktoum to pay for the transport. Personally, this is unacceptable to me, putting some nations to shame and something has to be done about it. this championship equals other Olympic sports. Well, may be in the near future.

Thanks again and please give your sister my best regards and wish her good riding.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Dear Hansi, many thanks, that would be most interesting. I quite agree-the moment you think you know a lot is the time to take a reality check-we NEVER stop learning! Our coach was actually an endurance rider himself but encourages dressage training in between rides to keep the horses supple. he's just a very hands on direct fellow which gets him some flack because people seem to prefer nice talk to practicality sometimes but I am glad he is in the picture again albeit just to advise and supervise and not full time-we had very good results when he was here,and the first world champs we went to in 98 we had all the team plus one individual finish-on horses who had never done the distance either! The only one who did not finish was an individual who pulled out feeling the horse was tiring although it vetted ok-which again I thought was a good sign-a responsible rider! Anyway, it CAN be a great sport when doe properly, so I hope it gets more positive for all. thanks again for the cd,and will send VOL 5 -it goes up to 2000 and the next is due out now ! All the best, Alia
Dear Princess Alia, dear Hansi,
I am testing the Stübben saddel called "Scout". I think it is the best one I ever had. You can see it in the picture. I am using it since oktober to train our horses. I prefer this saddle, because it is very good for training in dressage too. The weeks after a race I always only make dressage training with the horses to build them up again.
You can find information under :
Have a nice evening Lutz
Thanks for that. we usually use Wintec ones with extra`wide trees over the withers for Arabians-they seemed to be the best for us so far! Always interesting to see new or different ideas. There are ones with pads for water or sand to add weight, which then fit to the individual horse and the saddle rugs with gel in them are helpful too. Best wishes, Alia
The Stuebben saddle looks almost like the one we use for dressage:
Endurance is a very popular sport in germany, but I`m sorry to say that many riders do not know the simple principels to prepare a horse and rider for performance.

ciao roland palm
Dear Lutz and Roland

these saddles look good to me, they will put the rider more forward and get that butt out of the saddle and off the horse's back, ha!

One of my Stuebben combination is over fiftyt years old and still very good. My dressage saddle Stuebben 35, looks like new and yet has seen a lot of work. I like stuebben because it fits so well over the whithers and fitts all our horses. Actually all my Stuebbens do, and I have 5- fitt every horse I ever owned.

I never liked the Wintex, although light, it just never gave me the right feeling, may be because of the cloth material rather than leather. May be it is just in my mind, only being used to Stuebben for some 52 years. I tried Kiefer, but never liked their trees and fit. So I guess, each to its own.

Lutz, I am glad you test this saddle, just like testing a horse, eh?

I am seeing lately in other saddles, new ones, that the girth buckles up far below the billets, on the belly of the horse. Would this not put a particular unwanted pressure on the sides of the Horse? How can one apply gentle contact with one's calves? anybody has experiences with this? Mind you most of those riders had their legs stretched so far forward, they almost tickled the horse's noses. there was no knee bending, no nothing. I would fall off in such a position.

I also noticed on many of the endurance entries very strange bits.
Sort of curved all over the place. Any experiences with these?
And many horses wore a martingale and a breastplate to hold the saddle. some of these horses had enough whithers, that the saddle should not slip forward. So I just wonder why all this machinery, it's an extra irritation I feel, exposed to sweat and with it rubbing.
May be I am just too old fashion, or need new glasses ,eh!

Have a grand day
Hansi biggrin.gif
We have had several well conditioned geldings that even with the best fitting saddles (we rode in Stuebbens, and Chris Events in them too), the saddle just kept moving BACK over the course of several miles has to do with geldings having less spring in the rib than mares, often also being very deep bodied right at the girth then tapering. ('Course they don't have any problem with girth rubs as mares sometimes do when their ribs actually push the girth forward with motion.) We always had to use well-fitting breast collars on these geldings in CTR, Endurance, and Eventing.
Dear roland

this is the kind of girth I referred to. How can you keep your leg right on the girth with these buckles sticking out?

Hansi biggrin.gif
Sorry not posted on this site for ages - broadband has only just arrived in the more remote parts of SW England...

Anyway, just a comment regarding endurance riding, horses, etc.

The only Brit to finish the World Championships, Sarah Tyson (she was 38th I think), lives not far from me and trains her horses here on the Mendip Hills. She is one of the best riders I've ever seen, and rides in a classical manner, with great balance, technique, control and sensitivity. There aren't many people I'd trust my horses with, but Sarah is one of them.

The horse she rode in Dubai, Simbar, is 17 years old and is in fantastic condition. He's a real sweetie and adores Sarah. She and her mother, Yvonne (formerly an international endurance rider too) are extremely knowledgeable and I believe Yvonne actually invented the ReactorPanel saddle, in order to ensure her horses were as comfortable as possible.

I always thought endurance riders just went like mad, and I think some do, but I'll never forget the first time Sarah passed by on Simbar whilst out on a training ride, and I watched her go off in a beautiful controlled and balanced trot! If only I was half the rider Sarah is, I'd be happy, and I'm sure her horses think she's the best.

Dear Hansi

The girth on the first pic is loose.
These girth fit very well, the only problem is to tighten them sitting on the horse! biggrin.gif For me with my long arms it´s not so difficult. tongue.gif

Same saddle and girth in "action" Newel and me during the "forward downward" work two years ago.

ciao roland palm
thanks Roland

I dont believe I would like this kind of saddle/girth. MY arms also would never reach it.

Hansi biggrin.gif
Sometimes we love to do a little "show-jumping" with the same saddle too. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

You can see Newel´s 1a "jumping-style", he like´s it , also his rider isn´t a good jumper wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif

ciao roland palm

Uuups forgot the pic!
Sometimes we love to do a little "show-jumping" with the same saddle too. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

You can see Newel´s 1a "jumping-style", he like´s it , also his rider isn´t a good jumper wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif

ciao roland palm
HI roland

think of this rider having his leg on the girth, and where the bucle would touch his calves. May be I am seeing things, but it looks like an irritation and I really dont know who and why this type of Saddle is invented. How do you feel about it?
Do you prefer it over the normal old styles? Wont that pressure of that bucle be noticed by the horse and will it be confusing considering the aids? Also it does not look ver neat to my eyes,
what do you think?

Hansi biggrin.gif
Dear Hansi

Nearly all the new dressage saddles by stuebben, passier etc. have these long cords.
The advantage is that the buckles are not under the saddleblade.
Long cords , then you use short girths.
Look at the picture, we use the anatomic formed girth, which is very comfortable for the horse, and very easy to clean. The material protects the horse of split hairs.

I´ve been riding very long the older generation of saddles, but believe me the new generation is much more comfortable for horse and rider.
thanks Roland. I wish I could try it out.
I was just thinking of many riders at the Dubai Race, who actually had their legs stretched out forward, right under the elbow of the horses and such buckle I thought, might irritate them. Of course, it could also remind them of a better seat biggrin.gif

Hansi biggrin.gif .
Next picture shows the correct fitting cord with the girth.

ciao roland palm
thanks Roland

But to my eyes, it is zuviel gewurschtel. Warum wurde denn dieses erfunden?

Though I have not looked at the new saddles designed specifically for distance riding, those for the phases of Eventing differ greatly in where the girth fastens.

The newer Dressage saddles, virtually all brands, have the long billet straps (or cords) and short girth. The idea being to get the buckles out from under the rider's leg for smooth contact with the horse's body. On most riders the buckles are well below the calf, more in the region of the ankle. Proper girth length is important, not too long.

The Jumping saddles, both stadium and cross country, have the usual, or traditional shorter billet straps (cords) and longer girth which places the buckles quite high up under the saddle flaps. Again, proper girth length is important (not too short) to keep the buckles above the main contact area.

With either type, the wrong girth length COULD have a detrimental effect for some riders ....... got to consider "rider conformation" here too, just as you do when selecting the correct flap length/placement for each type leg (ie long thigh vs. short thigh on the rider), as well as stirrup bar placement.
Quite agree Hansi-if they put their legs less forward maybe more horses would finish!!! biggrin.gif Alia
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