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Peter Jones
I just saw the quote that a Guest wrote:

I believe Helen van Nes is in the hospital recovering from a hernia. She has been run over by horses (handled by Frank Spönle) while judging in Italy.

Peter Jones

____________________________________________________________________
EXPLANATION:
Some of Peter's remarks were edited.
Obviously this was an accident.

Our best wishes for Helen Henneken Van Nes for a fast recovery.
Aleksi & Oliver
bterlaan
Ow, Helen, BETERSCHAP!!!
Abbasiyah
sad.gif Yes Helen was run over by a horse that was handled by Frank Sponle. She was operated on for a herniated disk in her back on Monday and she will be released from the hospital today according to her father Jan Van Nes.

Also according to Jan a very stern letter is going to be sent to the president of ECAHO with respect to this matter. Something has to be done about the way these trainers are hyping and presenting these horses in the show ring, putting show officials and judges in danger. As I am also a judge I can fully understand the risks involved in judging hyped up halter horses. This type of presentation is totally unneccessary. mad.gif
Sadika
I am very sorry to hear this and wish Helen a very speedy and full recovery. Unfortunately this was an accident waiting to happen - the way things are going it was only a matter of time before someone in the ring would get hurt - everyone in the ring needs eyes in the back and side of their heads as well as where we do have them! You also need to be agile enough to jump out of the way when a trainer "aims" their horse and deliberately takes them outside the designated (and therefore expected) area for the trot out. Personally I have been inches away from disaster whilst in the ring as despite safety warnings from ring officials some trainers seem to think themselves "beyond the rules" and constantly flaunt them. Horses are unpredictable enough without being additionally hyped up. Everyone wants to enjoy a horse's performance, trainer's obviously want their horse to do well but SAFETY must come first.
JacquelineGuest
You can do well with a horse in the ring without beating the sh*t out of him all the time........
Then the horse will not start flying when he thinks that the handler is moving, and you will not have these kind of accidents.
I have had a harsh discussion one time with this handler as his his horse ran over me + the horse I was holding...........Why did the filly do that ? Because the handler threatened her with the whip, and yanked the chain and the poor horse just had no other way of escaping, gets paniced and leaves, running over anything that is in the way.
The apologie of the handler: you have to stay further out of the way ( 14 horses in the showring, and I was 10 meters away) if my horse is moving...........What do you mean by arrogant ?
Treat people and horses normal, and we will all have more fun.
I wish Helen all the best, and hopes she has a good and fast recovery smile.gif
BARB
QUOTE (Sadika @ Apr 15 2005, 02:29 PM)
I am very sorry to hear this and wish Helen a very speedy and full recovery. Unfortunately this was an accident waiting to happen - the way things are going it was only a matter of time before someone in the ring would get hurt - everyone in the ring needs eyes in the back and side of their heads as well as where we do have them! You also need to be agile enough to jump out of the way when a trainer "aims" their horse and deliberately takes them outside the designated (and therefore expected) area for the trot out. Personally I have been inches away from disaster whilst in the ring as despite safety warnings from ring officials some trainers seem to think themselves "beyond the rules" and constantly flaunt them. Horses are unpredictable enough without being additionally hyped up. Everyone wants to enjoy a horse's performance, trainer's obviously want their horse to do well but SAFETY must come first.

1 idea would be to present horses individually in the ring and not have other handlers and horses in the ring at the same time I'm sorry to hear about Helen's serious injuries . and I'm sure frank Sponle is feeling horrible about the accident .. all the best wisheds to both helen and Frank as they recover and sort out this situation . BARB
BARB
QUOTE (JacquelineGuest @ Apr 15 2005, 05:01 PM)
You can do well with a horse in the ring without beating the sh*t out of him all the time........
Then the horse will not start flying when he thinks that the handler is moving, and you will not have these kind of accidents.
I have had a harsh discussion one time with this handler as his his horse ran over me + the horse I was holding...........Why did the filly do that ? Because the handler threatened her with the whip, and yanked the chain and the poor horse just had no other way of escaping, gets paniced and leaves, running over anything that is in the way.
The apologie of the handler: you have to stay further out of the way ( 14 horses in the showring, and I was 10 meters away) if my horse is moving...........What do you mean by arrogant ?
Treat people and horses normal, and we will all have more fun.
I wish Helen all the best, and hopes she has a good and fast recovery  smile.gif

Yes the whip situation has to stop and harder measures taken by the judges and show organizers here in north america as well as any where else any king odf horses are shown .. the whip should only be used in training for slight correction as you teach the horse what's expected and just like FEI Dressage s hould be not allowed in show ring but that's just my opinion I just know that any horse i show will not be shown with a trainer holding a whip and i'll be there to make sure. BARB
BARB
QUOTE (Abbasiyah @ Apr 15 2005, 01:34 PM)
sad.gif Yes Helen was run over by a horse that was handled by Frank Sponle.  She was operated on for a herniated disk in her back on Monday and she will be released from the hospital today according to her father Jan Van Nes.

Also according to Jan a very stern letter is going to be sent to the president of ECAHO with respect to this matter.  Something has to be done about the way these trainers are hyping and presenting these horses in the show ring, putting show officials and judges in danger.  As I am also a judge I can fully understand the risks involved in judging hyped up halter horses.  This type of presentation is totally unneccessary. mad.gif

Not only judges but exhibitors and their horses. BARB sad.gif
geertO
Sorry to hear, take care Helen...
But have to mention (I did not see this accident) that its not always and only the trainers making the horse jumping around! Loud music, noise, 100 of flowers, and other things in the arena what makes the horse just crazy or nor confident.
Glenn
Veel beterschap Helen!

Groetjes,
Glenn
Sadika
Actually several of my "near" misses have happened at International Shows when there has been only one horse in the ring. The arena is marked out and most handlers attempt and manage to keep their charges within the triangle but certain ones always just have to "take their own line" (and continue to do so despite stewards' telling them not to...) in an effort to look more spectacular than other competitors? and everyone has to be prepared to move out of the way...
Tous crinsGuest
I wish Helen a prompt recovery. She was so kind to show me about a 100 horses one day, with a lot of patience, answering all my questions.

Christine
Guest
witch horse was it ?
diamonds
Beterschap Helen.

Diamonds.
Stephanie
It doesn't really matter which horse it is Guest. What does matter is that this actually happened and I think whoever is directly responsible should receive a penalty for this. This can not and may not happen again as someone or some horse can get severely injured. Something some people should start thinking about.

I wish Helen a speedy recovery and I hope to see her again around some arena somewhere in Europe.

Warm regards,
Stephanie
barb
QUOTE (Sadika @ Apr 15 2005, 06:20 PM)
Actually several of my "near" misses have happened at International Shows when there has been only one horse in the ring. The arena is marked out and most handlers attempt and manage to keep their charges within the triangle but certain ones always just have to "take their own line" (and continue to do so despite stewards' telling them not to...) in an effort to look more spectacular than other competitors? and everyone has to be prepared to move out of the way...

I totally agree that something has to be done but the rules also have to be stricktly enforced i mean everyone who does not obey the rules should be ( maybe ) disallowed from showing for a year the penalty has to be a big penalty . May be then these trainers will think twice before doing things like showing off. . BARB .
barb
QUOTE (Stephanie @ Apr 15 2005, 07:50 PM)
It doesn't really matter which horse it is Guest.  What does matter is that this actually happened and I think whoever is directly responsible should receive a penalty for this.  This can not and may not happen again as someone or some horse can get severely injured.  Something some people should start thinking about.

I wish Helen a speedy recovery and I hope to see her again around some arena somewhere in Europe.

Warm regards,
Stephanie

suspension for a year for the whole barn might get the message home . BARB
Helen Hennekens - van Nes.
Dear Everyone. Thank you all very much for wishing me a speedy recovery from my hernia operation. As one of the judges at the Malpensa show please let me try to explain what really happened at this show. First of all the surface of the showring was terrible deep sand and very difficult for us judges to walk around in.
Horses are shown in a very different way in italy than in all other countrys I have judged before. They are all very hyper and very stressed and so are the owners.
It is not fair to blame my very unfortunate accident completly onto Frank Sponle. I guess I just had bad luck.. Most of the horses Frank had to show he had never seen before and therefore didn't know how they would react to the whip in the ring. At 3 different occasions I had to jump away not to be run over by a young colt which he showed. The last time I did this was when I very unfortunate tripped over the flowers and could hardly walk after that. I couldn't judge the championships anymore and went home where I was operated on a hernia in my lower back and i hope to be myself again within 6 weeks rest.
Sylvie Eberhardt was as unlucky as I was at this show as she sprained her ankle very badly and was put in plaster.
with kind regards

Helen Hennekens- van Nes
Chris Wesley
Wishes to Helen for a fast and healthy recovery ...

This will continue to happen whilst ever Judges , Stewards & Officials continue to allow this sort of exhibiting !!!

SEND THEM OUT !! gbfahne.gif
Ivan
Hey guys,

as far as I know that horse didn't even tough Hellen van Nes (that really gives "running over" now a totally new meaning!!!). It pulled back a little bit and she directly had to jump backwards and whatever there was..... a hole in the ground.... a anyway already weak back.... so all the things are coming together.
I really don't understand why somebody who had backproblems recently is jumping around at a horse show. Maybe we also need a DC who is checking all the participants in the ring if they are "fit enough" to "compete" or "show up"... otherwise you see now what can happen and how people are making their own stories out of it! wink.gif

So all the best to Ms van Nes for curing.
italian guest
Dear friends,
Arabian horse breeders and owners in Italy are in a terrible situation since the neapolitanean horse-businessman Giuseppe Fontanella took over the whole event management and show biz with his promotion machine "Team del Cuore " (Heart team) in our country. Frank Spoenle is one of his deputies and the owners of the Fontanella-Heart Team-Horses are the Hooligans aside the ring. Come over and have a look to the shows here, you can't imagine what's happening. That's only deepest vulgar showbiz and has nothing to to anymore with horse training or breeding... In fact, these people are mostly alone on italian shows. All the other breeders and owners in Italy became "sleepers", waiting for help from the WAHO ore trying to present their horses in other european shows. That what happened to Mrs. Van Nees is business as usual on all shows in Italy, with the little different, that Mrs. van Nees has the courage to fight back. Complimenti!!!
Marianna
Daniella
Sleepers biggrin.gif ,

don't sleep then!!! Or are you just not motivated and courageous enough to organize an arabian horse event by your own??? Or probably only jealous that you don't belong to that team???? biggrin.gif I will wait for an event organized by italian guest. But complaining is of course much more easy than doing this my dears!

To avoid all these ridiculous discussions my conclusion is: no shows or events anymore! Lets sit at home and don't share the pleasure arabian horses make with other people biggrin.gif
Sadika
To Ivan:
I've read Helen's account and where does she mention "...a anyway already weak back.... so all the things are coming together.
I really don't understand why somebody who had backproblems recently is jumping around at a horse show. Maybe we also need a DC who is checking all the participants in the ring if they are "fit enough" to "compete" or "show up"... otherwise you see now what can happen and how people are making their own stories out of it!"

Dear Helen
so pleased you were able to post and I think it's very noble of you to put it down to "bad luck" but why did you have to jump out of the way of the same horse 3 times???? Once should have resulted in the handler being spoken to, twice surely asked to leave the ring but for a 3rd time???? Obviously this colt was either not trained or reacted badly to the showing experience or was being deliberately allowed to perform as it did - whatever reason it was obviously a danger and should therefore have been taken out voluntarily or sent out. Not knowing how a horse might react to a whip surely means you would be conservative about how you used it?


Maybe this particular incident resulted from a combination of circumstances but I still maintain that the way some horses are shown it is only a matter of time before someone is injured directly because of it.
BARB
QUOTE (Helen Hennekens - van Nes. @ Apr 15 2005, 08:30 PM)
Dear Everyone. Thank you all very much for wishing me a speedy recovery from my hernia operation. As one of the judges at the Malpensa show please let me try to explain what really happened at this show. First of all the surface of the showring was terrible deep sand and very difficult for us judges to walk around in.
Horses are shown in a very different way in italy than in all other countrys I have judged before. They are all very hyper and very stressed and so are the owners.
It is not fair to blame my very unfortunate accident completly onto Frank Sponle. I guess I just had bad luck.. Most of the horses Frank had to show he had never seen before and therefore didn't know how they would react to the whip in the ring. At  3 different occasions I had to jump away not to be run over by a young colt which he showed. The last time  I did this was when I very unfortunate tripped over the flowers and could hardly walk after that. I couldn't judge the championships anymore and went home where I was operated on a hernia in my lower back and i hope to be myself again within 6 weeks rest.
Sylvie Eberhardt was as unlucky as I was at this show as she sprained her ankle very badly and was put in plaster.
with kind regards

Helen Hennekens- van Nes

Glad you're home and doing better indeed we all wish you a full and speedy recovery and as i said before i'm sure Frank Feels horrible that this has happened . biggrin.gif gbfahne.gif BARB @:}-
temcy
Helen,
Van harte beterschap gewenst. Hopelijk heb je niet al te veel pijn sad.gif
En ik hoop dat je ruim vóór je eigen show in Brecht weer helemaal opgeknapt zult zijn!!
Sterkte!
Tsahal Arabians
Ook vanuit het Drenthse land wensen we je een voorspoedig herstel!!
Al Fawara
Beste Helen, van harte beterschap, ik wens je rust en sterkte om weer bij te komen na dit unfortuinelijke incident, allerbeste wensen, Sven
corbinmk
Helen, Speedy Recovery!
bartGuest
Beste Helen,

Veel beterschap toegewenst en hopelijk ben je snel weer ten volle op de been.
Trouwens ik vind je antwoord erg nobel, misschien een beetje te!

Doet er niet toe als alles maar goed komt,

Veel groetjes, Bart. smile.gif
barbara.gregory
I hope you make a speedy recovery, Helen, and have no long term effects. I am not surprised as I often think stallion classes are an accident waiting to happen, not so good to be on the receiving end of the accident.

Barbara
Stephanie
I've now read several comments of people who are more familiar with the Italian showring then myself. It really sounds more like a mad circusarena then a showring where horses are shown for their conformation, presence and beauty. A scared horse which is jumping around, first of all, is terribly dangerous and Helen and Sylvie Eberhardt were still pretty lucky. Things could have turned out much worse and we all know that very well.

Second, this also means it is impossible to thoroughly judge the animals conformation, its natural presence and its beauty. Is this what the showring is to become? A good time and serious call to Ecaho to take some action against these practices and to make sure the horses are well handled in the first place. Animal cruelty is often only associated with physical abuse, but what about the mental state of a showhorse !!! blink.gif It is 5 to 12 for the Arabian showring.

Helen, you are very polite in your description of what happened. I take my hat off for your kind words. I wish you all the best and hopefully a full recovery will be yours to enjoy.

kind regards,
Stephanie
HLM
Dear Helen

I am terribly sorry that you got hurt, which should not have happened at all. I pray that you will recover quickly and well as well as Miss Eberhard.

I dont know about the system over there, but here the stewart would have been informed and the horse excused- given the gate.
Pete Cameron would not even pin an unruly horse, neither would I!

Best regards
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Kashka
I recall watching a young trainer running into the ring backwards smacking his whip on the ground to get the full attention of his charge a 3 year old stallion. While jetting backwards he tripped and went down and unluckily had the lead wrapped around his wrist. The horse dragged him fifty feet in a straight line to where the judge was stationed taking notes as if to ask for help and obediently stopped there as if he had been trained from his first halter session as a foal to perform such a feat.

To make matters worse the trainer forgot to wear a belt and as he stood up his pants fell around his ankles and he went down a second time. The horse now fully trained to drag trainers appeared ready for take-off a second time but the judge grabbed the horse in the nick of time and handed him off to her assistant.

I enjoyed this new fashion of exhibiting halter horses but sadly it never caught on.

The moral of the story is If we are going to operate our shows like a circus we ought to at least hire talented circus performers to exhibit our horses and this goes for judges too.
MarcoGuest
nobody in Italy is intrested to organise a circus but a show for serious breeders and trainers. But how can you do if the Fontanella team comes with a truck, 25 horses, Franck Spoenle and 2oo Owners-fwith family (sometimes Hooligans between them), to win for every cost? If you buy a horse in the Fontanella stud in Napoli, they promise you that your horse wins in some way in some shows...Thats why he makes the business.
For this reason the atmosphaere became serously competitiv and if the horse is not good enough and if the judges don't agree to let it win, the hooligans start to make pressing on the other horses...
Come over and see what happen in Italy.
Sadika
Can somebody who was there tell us what actually happened after Helen was injured? I assume the horse was not judged? What did the DCs do?
Mariella Bibiani
Last year I was visiting a show and Fontanella came with about 15 Horses but no vet certifications. The organisator didn't want to let him participate... you can't imagin what happened, phisical minatory as well as other forms of pressing.At the end the "Team del Cuore" entered the thow, no judge said something...there is really nobody who takes position... everybody has seen it, but silence.

Mariella
Arturo
"Waiting for Huemer"
It's all the power of money which makes the arabien horse world going round in Italy. Or you take part of the nepotism and you have benefit, or you are out and more than that you become trouble if you talk.
The ANICA as well did never intervent and now even for the fututre their institutional silence is guaranteed. To say thank you for that, 1 week ago at the new elections of the Anica President, the Santoro team got all the votes from the "Fontanella team del cuore" and was elected the 3. time (!) for president.
Jonas S.
The poor Judges
Guest
I was in the show in Italy and feel very sorry for what happened to the two judges. The ground was very bad and dangerous for both people and horses. So it would have been easy to imagine that such accidents could have happened.

The shows in Italy the last years see a very low number of horses. Always around 50-60 horses. Fontanella comes with 20 horses most of the times. What would happen if he didn't come. I think we could stop with the shows.
Sometimes the whole team gets a bit to excited, but at least we have some people in the audience watching the show. Giuseppe Fontanella is a good business man with a lot of passion for the Arabian horse. The team is a big family that shares the love for their horses... what's wrong with this?

For what concerns Frank Spoenle I think he's a professional trainer and handler, and this he prooved many times in Europe, Italy and worldwide.

That's all I have to say, and as a suggestion, I would try not to be so jealous about successful people, but I would try to learn from them.

All my wishes to the two injured judges and the best of Luck for the Fontanella team!
Franco
Dear Guest,
that is the problem in Italy. Nobody wants to take part of the shows anymore because the Hooligans of Fontanella are creating an atmosfere of fear to owners and horses.
And that is not all! The power of the money is everywhere to see. Or can you explain me why last year at the nationals in Verona, the black buffel from Fontanella " Windprees Mirage" has beaten the Worldchampion and Aachen-winner Hadidi in the Championship? Don't answer that Hadidi was not in good conditions. He was in good condition.
It's time to make a computeranalysis about the show results of the Fontanella horses in the context of the judges. I'm sure, there will come up intresting material for the EAHCO disciplinary comittee.
HLM
Good morning dear Franco and everybody

I am reading ll the posts regarding the subject here and am getting sadder by the minutes.

Can you tell me please if it is true that the drug "Belladona" (I hope I spelled this right)
has bee used on the runa-away colt, injuring both judges?

"Belladone" is put into a horse's eyes, I was told by a veterinarian
to make the eyes look "Huge". Problem is the horse goes blind for a while and cant "see" and becomes very frightened.

Indeed it would be scary to enter a horse in a show over there.
So may be those breeders/clients mentioned should just compete with each other. Are any of these horses shown under saddle?

Have a nice day
Hansi
Franco
Better to ask Franck Spoenle about that, he was the one who had this anxious and maybe belladonnatreated "blind" horses in his hand.
HLM
Dear Franco

No, I cant do this, It is not my call .

I did not even know that the drug "Belladonna" exist, and if it does, that people would use it to enlarge the eye.
I am by no means saying that this was used at that show, I am only asking a question, as it was mentioned to me.

Of course, now I am beginning to wonder if the "huge" eyes shown in various photos of some horses are FOR REAL.

Have a nice day
Hansi biggrin.gif

>
Guest
QUOTE (Jonas S. @ Apr 17 2005, 11:11 AM)
The poor Judges

The poor horses, Jonas!

Respect for those people who won't share this horrible way of horse-handling.
And keep their horses at home. smile.gif

Who really wants to see these shows (!!!) anymore?
I don't. sad.gif
arizonafan
Last year many handlers were hurt or sick, this year the judges has to look out for injuries.
Helen, besh wishes to you.
Mirkayan
POOR HORSES!!!!!!!
That must really HURT ph34r.gif !!....handler is tripping, horse trying to get away , he/she is using the horse his head as a towing -chain..... mad.gif ...

Een Voorspoedige Beterschap Voor U Gewenst! Mevr. Van Nes wink.gif
Guest
Dear Franco and all,
I was at the Italian Nationals last year and saw a very old but still fascinating Hadidi, but that he probably already had his time, and for sure sick of shows. His charisma and movement were gone. Windspress Mirage was moving and showing off just like a stallion should do. He has his faults, like many horses do, but I think he deserved the title.

I really don't think that this Belladonna drug was ever used by anybody in Italy. The colts in the collecting ring were quiete and not making any troubles. I think now you're all making this thing a bit too big. I wouldn't start saying that people use drugs on their horses if I'm not 100% sure.

Concerning Italian shows, I don't think that people don't come to shows because afraid of Fontanella Hooligans (how you call them). I'm more willing to think that coming to shows is now very expensive, they are all in Northern Italy, so people from center and south have a very hard and expensive way to go. There is no price money that incentivates people to come, no ridden classes, etc... We should maybe try to improve our shows and make them nicer so that more people could come.

Please, lets stop spreading bad things on people and lets enjoy our beautiful horses.
Sadika
Do none of the Italian Arabian shows have ridden classes then?
FrancescoGuest
We used to have ridden classes, but not anymore. Sometimes they organize ridden classes in Verona, but that's all. In all the other smaller shows we don't have ridden classes.

In Italy we have more or less 12.000 Arabian horses and only 50 or 60 show up at the shows. What about the rest? I think we shouldn't waste time talking bad about trainers, handlers, breeders or whatsoever, but we should try to get also the other Arabian horses in Italy involved. We could organize ridden classes, endurance races for amateurs and professionists, or a lot of other things that would involve all breeders, not only the ones that breed showhorses.

It's bad to only hear complaining and nobody suggesting new things to improve the Arabian Horse Breed in Italy.

Francesco
Guest
to the ECAHO , please disqualify Mr.Spönle and The Fontanella team , because they have no heart for horses and judges . He is the most arrogant people in the europeanshowring mad.gif
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