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Timbuk2
Thomas

Perhaps you should read my post again and think about what I have written carefully do not skim over the top and only see what you want to see!!!

My reply was to Charlotte and Charlotte says

Quote "but simply that the horse had correct enough conformation and a good enough disposition to carry a rider well and over a certain distance, and stay sound But I honestly think that rideability - and by that I don't mean olympic potential,"

What I am saying is simple, and please note Charlottes last sentence carries much weight.

1: Just because a horse is very Typey and has a wonderful pedigree, does not automatcally mean it is not rideable.

2: Any horse that is not lame or ill can carry a rider under Charlottes rules no matter what it's conformation is like.

3: Correct conformation does not automatically mean the horse will be a sound saddle horse, as I have seen many extremely well conformed horses break down and be vetted out at Endurance rides, and like wise I have seen many what you people would say was not rideable horses win endurance rides and pass through vet checks with flying colours.

I am not in any shape or form condoning bad conformation, and I do not know any breeder that would, yet you are suggesting that breeders such as Dr Nagel and others who breed truly beautiful Arabians do not care about conformation at all, I find this the height of rudeness, how do you know what is in their mind & hearts?

This forum was about Hafid Jamil, guests came on and made remarks about his conformation based on photos and heresay, the forum was not ever about conformation in general, so please explain how people who own Hafid Jamil and also his followers can take it any other way other than personal attack.

Tim
guestGuest
Timbuk2 I guess that though different eyes people see different things. Some see a very pretty " typey" horse others see a horse with some faults . It just depends on what you see with your own eyes and how you feel about this stallion. As to if any one was wong as to how they see him I'm not sure, but all I know is we all seem to see and view things differently. Good or bad that's just how things are and will always be.
Ralph
Gari! I just had to jump in here to thank you for the SHEER DELIGHT and SURPRISE to see Jubilee Princess! wub.gif It just really made my day to see her beautiful face. Thank you so much.
Hoogie
QUOTE (Gari @ Jun 23 2005, 11:46 PM)
Though I must admit to a certain level of in intense jealousy that you can jump on a horse at a whim and ride out into the desert every morning and evening!

Me too!
We need to see some photos of you riding in the desert Usamah for us to drool over (an become even more jealous! laugh.gif )
Ralph
Hey Everyone....TRIVIA FACT....Do you know why Jubilee Princess is called Jubilee Princess? Because she was born in Queen Elizabeth's Jubilee Year! Isn't that clever? (NOTE TO LIZ SALMON: I tried very hard to not say "quite nice" smile.gif )
Gari
Thank you, Ralph!
usamah ezzain
QASWARAH WOULD LOVE THE RENDEVOUS WITH YOUR CHARMING FILLY GARI wub.gif wub.gif
RE HOOGIE,BELIEVE ME THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF HAFIDS BOYS UNDER SADDLE AND IN DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES,BUT THE OLDEST IS JUST 3 YEARS OLD wink.gif AND I DONT BELIEVE IN JEALOUSY,BUT MANY PEOPLE SEEMS TO BE SICK AND MENTALLY RETARDED,BUT WE HAVE A SAYING THAT HATERED AND JEALOUSY EATS THE HEARTS OF THEIR BEARERS ph34r.gif
Guest
LOL, why is it just because someone doesn't agree with the rest of you, you automatically assume it's jealousy? What on earth is there to be jealous about.
Melanie Schwiers
Though I'm a fan of Hafid Jamil I have to agree with the Guest this time. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. After all nobody should be forced to love a certain horse. biggrin.gif
It's nothing wrong with disliking a horse and for explaining the reason why - given that this is done in a kind manner.
To scream "jelousy" every time when someone raises his/her voice against someone's opinion isn't fair.
Guest
THANK YOU! It's sad that people don't seem to be allowed to come to their own conclusions about something without being labelled as jealous.
I too love Hafid, and the other horses pictured on this thread are magnificent, but I don't feel the posters who have a different opinion are jealous, these just aren't their type of horse!
The world would be a very boring place if we all had the same opinions of something.
Hafid Fan
Melanie Schwiers,
Kind Manner?????You should read what they wrote at the start of this thread,most of it is edited out by now by the adminstrator.

Guest,
The beautifull exotic heads that you can not breed,this is what is making you full of envy. tongue.gif
Guest
Hafid Fan, I already mentioned I like Hafid. I just made the point that just because someone else doesn't like him, does not mean to say they are envious or jealous.
The people who made rude comments, the ones now removed, were wrong to do so, but then isn't that a little like the kettle calling the pot black, since you too have been throwing insults left right and centre.
All I can say is there are some very childish people on this thread, and a severe lack of respect for other people's opinions mad.gif
Eagleridge Arabian Farm
Usamah Ezzain

Thankyou for showing us the photos of your beautiful horses, I too would love for Qasqarah to rendevous with some of my fillies, he is just stunning, congratulations on owning and breeding such beautiul horses, and with great conformation as well biggrin.gif laugh.gif biggrin.gif

I never tire of seeing these photos and hope to one day see them in the flesh.

Kind Regards
Jenni
Gari
Usamah,

Did you ever visit Om El Arab in California? The exterior shot of the barn featuring the gorgeous NK Zaherah looks like it is a very similar structure to Om El's barn (which is one of my favorite barns in the world as it is so conducive to happy horses). Is that coincidence or had you seen their barn in Cal?
Dr Daniel Wigger
Whenever people are in love with someone or something, they tend to be and to talk very emotionally. Usamah and his great love, Hafid Jamil, have been attacked here quite often. I recently had the great honour to get to know Usamah. My impression was, that he is one of the most enthusiastic breeders of Arab horses in a native country who developed an exquisite breeding program which indeed deserves the term: "program". He did his homework and is a diligent student of the breeding program of his mentor Dr. Nagel knowing exactly the pros and cons of this unique source. Besides he is eagerly and honestly interested in ones opinions, horses and breeding results even if they might be different. It was a real pleasure to exchange opinions with him and I truly believe that he reaches his dream to become a true successor of NK and to breed living Haggards, THAT CAN BE RIDDEN, TOO. That's why both, the ultra-exotic Hafid Jamil AND the "best" Ansata stallion AlMurtajiz, play a major role and complement one another in his program.

biggrin.gif <_<
usamah ezzain
DEAR DR.WIGGER,THE HONOUR IS MINE,YOU GOT MY SECRET biggrin.gif
DEAR GARI,YES I WERE AT OMELARAB AND MET THE NICE OWNERS,AND IF MY PLACE IS SIMILAR THEN IT IS AN ACCOMPLISHMENT wink.gif
DEAR JENNI,YES I WILL BREED HIM TO YOURS,KIND PEOPLE DESERVES THE BEST wub.gif
Ladypurr
Dear Ralph,

Jubilee Princess is indeed a lovely filly. Just a few weeks ago I was with friends and visited Mt. Pleasant Stallion Station where Gari stands her gorgeous young stallion, Antham. Words and pictures simply do not do this stallion justice. It is a privilege to be in his presence and touch his silken neck. He has a perfect body and a head that is beyond exotic. Oh! what a beauty. His personality and temperament are delightful as well. He's a horse you can "hang out" with and truly enjoy. And YES, he is under saddle and moves with great freedom and presence.

As fond as I am of Antham, I have to be reminded to close my mouth when I watch his father, *Rushan. Like Antham, you have to experience this stallion in the flesh. His ability as a sire is simply limitless. I truly believe you could breed a moose to him and get the most Arabic-looking moose on the planet. (Not sure he'd be all that thrilled with such a mating, of course!). He is that prepotent for exquisite type and quality. He moves like Barishykov (sp?). You get the drift.

Loved your pic! Your mare is beautiful. You're not so bad yourself!!

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

--Susan
Ralph
Hey Susan smile.gif Thanks, you made my day. smile.gif My daughter, Amanda graudated high school on Wednesday...I am feeling a bit old wink.gif Where did the last twenty years go?

Do you know that Antham has a full brother? Gari gave me the good news. Did you see him?

When you were out at the stallion station, did you get to see Gari's new mare? I saw a picture of her the other day and she is pretty.

*Rushan...gosh, I don't think anything I could say would do him justice. He sired Antham...what more needs to be said? When I visited Wayne Newton's ranch, I kept thinking of *Rushan and what a perfect cross he would be at Aramus Arabians. I couldn't stop thinking about it. Antham is living proof of how well the match works.

Ralph
Peter Dendt
QUOTE (Guest @ Jun 24 2005, 10:42 AM)
Hafid Fan, I already mentioned I like Hafid. I just made the point that just because someone else doesn't like him, does not mean to say they are envious or jealous.
The people who made rude comments, the ones now removed, were wrong to do so, but then isn't that a little like the kettle calling the pot black, since you too have been throwing insults left right and centre.
All I can say is there are some very childish people on this thread, and a severe lack of respect for other people's opinions  mad.gif

So, we can take you seriously "guest".
Why don't you put out your name here ?
Eagleridge Arabian Farm
To Guests who say they are not jealous and just have a different opinion, if you feel you have not written anything wrong, please enlighten us as to why you speak behind guest status? Surely if there is no malice intended you would not want to hide your identity. Perhaps it is time for people to rethink if you have to hide who you are then isn't it best not said at all.

Have a great day biggrin.gif
Cheers
Jenni
guestGuest
There has been a new thread started that may answer some of your questions.
Gari
Melanie,

You are right. BUT they show what they are when they are too cowardly to post their names when they are so viciously critical. That is beyond the pale. It takes courage to put your name where your mouth is.

Usamah,

Am buying lottery tickets! Gotta make it happen!

Ralph and Susan,

He is cute, isn't he?! Anyway Susan, bless you and thank you a thousand fold. Rushan and Antham send their love.

You have to come back and see the full brother...He has transfomed. (he was looking rather roly poly when Susan came out!)..He is now more flaxen than Ant! And oh! What a body. Really really awesome. Will take photos in the next week or so. If only I could get a girl of this combo...! Then would have another for Usamah's colt!

As far as a moose...Hey, Rushan is a happy camper and a good sport! He'd be thrilled to accomodate! Although the picture would be something to behold!

Ralph, congratulations to your daughter! Good going, Dad! And thank you for your support. Gotta get you out here to meet Susan who is pretty cute, too! Also have to plot how to get some of Usamah's bloodlines to the good old USA!

Gari
Dr Daniel Wigger
I have a challenging question:

Does anybody have a photo of NK Hafid Jamil as a foal??? rolleyes.gif
Ralph
I just saw one, over the last few days...let me see if I can find it for you smile.gif
Connyi
Not quite as a foal, but there is a photo of him in the Hanan-book which shows his as a yearling or so (p. 214)

Conny
Ralph
Daniel:

I think it was in the "Quiz" section of the site, in the "growing foals" article...somethings wrong on my laptop and I can't click on the pictures to get the effect. Hope it works better for you.

Ralph
Guest
QUOTE
So, we can take you seriously "guest".
Why don't you put out your name here ?


Oh for crying outloud! My real name is Diane, now, whether I call myself guest or Diane, leaves YOU none the wiser!


QUOTE
You are right. BUT they show what they are when they are too cowardly to post their names when they are so viciously critical. That is beyond the pale. It takes courage to put your name where your mouth is.


Cowardly? That's the most pathetic thing I ever heard.
I just posted my real name, as I said above, it leaves none of you any the wiser. Heck, get over the Guest thing will you? I'll say same things as guest as I will under my own name - either way, you still won't know who I am.
You lot make me laugh, if you concentrated on more important things in life rather than whether or not someone is anonymous or otherwise, the world would probably be a better place.
Ralph
QUOTE
You lot make me laugh, if you concentrated on more important things in life rather than whether or not someone is anonymous or otherwise, the world would probably be a better place.


I thought this was supposed to be about horses???? blink.gif
Guest
lol, so did I, some people have other idea's though.
Jennifer
QUOTE (Eagleridge Arabian Farm @ Jun 25 2005, 02:44 AM)
To Guests who say they are not jealous and just have a different opinion, if you feel you have not written anything wrong, please enlighten us as to why you speak behind guest status? Surely if there is no malice intended you would not want to hide your identity.

I'm afraid I have seen it a number of times on this forum that somebody expressed an opinion which was perhaps a little critical of a certain horse or breeder or practice. Just their personal opinion, with no personal offence meant, no rude words, and drawing attention to the fact that it's just their opinion. And although those people posted under their names, they were attacked as being malicious, rude, jealous or whatever. I mean, if no differing opinions are welcome, what's the point of a discussion forum? And let's be honest, there are plenty of influential breeders or judges who read this forum. Perhaps some people are just frightened to post their opinion under their own name, just because somebody might hold a grudge <_<
norabian
Hm, I also remember such a foal-photo of Hafid Jamil... unsure.gif
Think it was posted somewhere here a few days ago, but where???
I try to remember. Maybe it was posted by Usamah Ezzain?
I will tell you if I find it.
Ralph
PS In this forum, GUESTS have a bad reputation for making statements that normally a person would not make, if they were going to be held accountable...the GUEST label makes it easier for people to drop the BOMB and run like a chicken. wink.gif The accusations or rather, the insinuations that have been made about NK Hafid Jamil are made towards any horse that is extremely beautiful. More often than not, the questions expressed about an individual horse's abilities are made by people who haven't even seen the horse in person. It seems to be the current fashion, to doubt that a horse is capable of functionality just because it is extremely beautiful...but, since you mention a better world...it's just a mirror of the negativity that has crept into all of our lives...not surprised to find it here too. sad.gif
Ralph
QUOTE
I mean, if no differing opinions are welcome, what's the point of a discussion forum?


Yes, you are correct and I agree....but there is a way to ask and a way not to ask...I have yet to meet the GUEST that asks a question in a manner that invites dialogue, even if it is critical...usually, a GUEST makes definitive statements (or uses phraseology that gives that impression) and no one likes that.

Dr. Nagel's program has significantly impacted Arabian Horse breeding programs all over the world, as a complement to existing bloodlines or creating new programs, entirely on their own. I don't believe that I have ever met a person who has not "oooohed" or "aaahed" upon seeing a Nagel bred horse, at one time or another. It's going to be difficult to say anything critical about a program like Dr. Nagel's without encountering a little bit of defensiveness. Just a "reality check" for you GUEST. wink.gif

Ralph
Dr Daniel Wigger
Could we PLEASE stick to the topic? I just wanted to see a photo of my beloved NK Hafid Jamil as a foal and I wouldn't even care about a million guests tearing him apart. I know what I see/saw and I didn't see such since 1979. Experienced horsemen and skilful breeders as well as vets breed/bred their mares to him - they can't all be blind or lunatics. tongue.gif laugh.gif
Ralph
No problem Daniel smile.gif I hope you find the picture that you are looking for! smile.gif
norabian
I´m in process, nothing found yet, but I continue searching! wacko.gif
Eagleridge Arabian Farm
QUOTE (Ralph @ Jul 2 2005, 02:14 AM)
PS In this forum, GUESTS have a bad reputation for making statements that normally a person would not make, if they were going to be held accountable...the GUEST label makes it easier for people to drop the BOMB and run like a chicken.  wink.gif  The accusations or rather, the insinuations that have been made about NK Hafid Jamil are made towards any horse that is extremely beautiful. More often than not, the questions expressed about an individual horse's abilities are made by people who haven't even seen the horse in person. It seems to be the current fashion, to doubt that a horse is capable of functionality just because it is extremely beautiful...but, since you mention a better world...it's just a mirror of the negativity that has crept into all of our lives...not surprised to find it here too.  sad.gif

Hi Ralph

Wished I had said this, I am surprised though that people are cynical enough to worry about voicing their own opinion under their own name for fear of retribution from a judge. I would hope that the judges judge the horse rather than what the owners beliefs are.

I too would love to see some pics of Hafid Jamil as a foal also.

Cheers
Jenni
chaswyckcaliph
In reply to the rude guest who commented about pretty heads and bad legs: What are you on about? Which of these horses has bad legs? You're opinion is very wrong. I cannot see a horse in this thread with bad legs. NK Hafid Jamil is a wonderful stallion whose contribution to the breed will most definately prove to be invaluable.
Doris
Please calm down. NK Hafid Jamil is of course a horse with a wonderful expression but of course he has his lesser good pints. Dr. Nagel is well aware of this fact and at his open day in July he honestly said that Hafid Jamil gives him extreme type and tipyy ears but steep frontlegs as well. Many horse at Dr. Nagel show this sreep frontlegs and again Dr. Nagel knows it very well and he can live with that. But to claim this horse or that horse is perfect makes no sense.
Everyone has to decide which point of a horse is important - some go for type, some for legs, some want it all.
I want to add that this has nothing to do with "bashing". smile.gif
Dr Daniel Wigger
QUOTE (Doris @ Aug 2 2005, 08:04 AM)
Dr. Nagel is well aware of this fact and at his open day in July he honestly said that Hafid Jamil gives him extreme type and tipyy ears but steep frontlegs as well.

Thank you Doris. Not quite correct. Dr. Nagel stated, that this horse consists of a "front horse" and a "hind horse". The front horse is exceptional, the hind horse not so good. The steepness, you mentioned, refers to his hind legs - by the way: a trait that can be found in many SEs and can already be seen on many historical photos. He also pointed out that HJ usually passes on his front, but not his hind part. wink.gif <_<

Nevertheless, HJ is not perfect, but a brilliant and consistent sire of type, as every visitor could see at the Open Day at NK. I consider him to be the most prepotent sire on NK since Ansata Halim Shah and therefore, I think, his hind end is much better than Dr. Nagel stated ... biggrin.gif laugh.gif
Doris
Thank you. I agree in regard to his prepotency I disagree in regard to his frontlegs. smile.gif But again here we are with one horse and two opinions. I can live with that. Important is to respect the horse in itself.
c.m.
Dear Dr. Wigger,

you can't overlook his frontlegs.
Type, in this case extreme heads, is a trait which can easily be improved from generation to generation.
Bad legs are something that remains..you will need generations to breed better legs.
I would still go for the whole package and not concentrate on heads only.
Good legs, strong "hind part" and high tail carriage + airy movement should not be bred away...
All these features make a good horse and it can still have a beautiful head.
Just my opinion.
usamah ezzain
stop this discussion please for hafid jamills sake ohmy.gif THE HORSE IS TOO GOOD TOBE TRUE wink.gif
people dont like him,please use others,NOBODY IS PUTTING GUNS TO TO YOUR HEADS,DONT USE HIM PLEASE mad.gif
let us,HAFIDS LOVERS cool.gif get the bad legs and you SUPER BREEDERS laugh.gif laugh.gif breed the betterlegged horses so we can run to buy them from you to fix our poorlegged horses laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

30 hours born grandson of HAFID wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif
usamah ezzain
THE SAME HORSE,MEZHER EZZAIN wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif :wub:3MONTHS OLD cool.gif
paola marinangeli
Dear Usamah,

this ''little boy'' is ABSOLUTELY a MARVEL...!!! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif smile.gif smile.gif wink.gif smile.gif smile.gif wink.gif

Paola
usamah ezzain
DEAR PAOLA,
THANKS,DID YOU NOTICE HOW BAD HIS LEGS WERE laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
WE HAVE A SAYING IN ARABIC THAT TRANSLATE AS FOLLOWS:

SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT US,BUT REMEMBER ONE THING,IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO REACH OUR STANDARDS cool.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

HIS LOVELY MOTHER NK JURIE(HAFID JAMILL X NARIMAN) wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif
Gestüt Familie Pabst
Dear Critic`s,

I just told your discussion about the poor, poor Hafidprogeny to "Sir P."
(our chestnut colt from 2005 , NK SORAYA X NK HAFID JAMIL).

His answer was:
Gestüt Familie Pabst
Sorry about him.

Marcus Pabst
almuntaha
biggrin.gif
paola marinangeli
Dear Usamah,

Yes.....lovely mare indeed...thanks for posting this photo.

Paola
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