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HLM
Good morning everybody

Would it not be a nice idea to name here all Straight Egyptian or Egytian related, which made the Hengstleistungspruefung oder Stutenleistungspruefung?

that should include all, from day one.

We exported so far to Germany 8 SEs and 1 related.
of these are

6 to Lutz Petersen
HLP- Serenity Shaha - mare
Ameen Laheeb- stallion
Ammen Safeer- Stallion

And Serenity Shahan and Serenity Bint Lazan, many wins.
Serenity Lamia, mare- unshown, but dam of Ameen Safeer..

Khobarr (1984) (Khofo++ x SCA Super Star} E/R/
HLP 1988/89
owner Heidi Knall-Steiner, Todtenweiss, Germany

Serenity Kalila 1985) aged not shown.Export to Klaus denart in 2002, deceased and Serenity Bint Aristu- too young to show, but under saddle.

Please all others, let us hear of your wonderful HLP Arabians.
this might assist others to consider breeding from such excllent SES.

thanks and have a grand day
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Knaack-Lindemann
Authentic Ibn Nawaal (Maysoun x AK Nawaal) made his performance-test in Marbach last year. He is a gold-ribbon-stallion and Multiple-Show-Champion. Breeder and Owner is Mrs. Kolster
SabineGuest
Dear Hansi,
the HLP alone means nothing if the stallions don't have the type and conformation regarded as above average.
We should name all stallions that have passed the performance test AND achieved a premium at the German Stallion Licensing or have a Gold ribbon or silver ribbon at the stallion show.

If beauty alone means nothing for YOU, performance alone means nothing for me.

Kind regards
Sabine biggrin.gif
Babette
You can find the stallions on the VZAP Homepage.

It is listed if they have HLP and a gold ribbon !!
Dietmar
I copied this from an older thread for my archive.
Here is a list of all sE stallions alive in Germany who passed the performance test ("HLP") successfully and won a Golden Ribbon at teh Stallion Show or got a Premium at the former Stallion Licensing.
Should I have forgotten one, please feel free to add him.

EL ALLAH ABU (Thee Desperado x Shaamisa Mystique), 1996
Gold award at the Stallion Show
HLP 2003

AUTHENTIC IBN NAWAAL (Maysoun x AK Nawaal)
Gold award at the Stallion Show
HLP 2003

SIAM - Elite Stallion (Madkour I x Sehnab)
Stallion Licensing: Premium
HLP 1989

MUQATAMM (Mahomed x Ghazala), 1979
Stallion Licensing: Premium
HLP 1984

MESSAOUD - Elite Stallion (Madkour x Maymoonah), 1979
Stallion Licensing: Premium + Junior Champion
HLP 1983

ADAWI (Maysoun x Ameenah II), 1992
Gold award at Stallion Show
HLP 1996

M SHARIN (Ibn Bint Inas x Shannah), 1993
Gold award at Stallion Show & Junior Champion
HLP 1996

IBN MAGDI (IBn Galal x Gamila), 1979
Licensing: Premium
HLP 1983

SHAMS EL FARABI-FLOR (Ibrahim x Shams El Farabiah), 1984
Licensing: Premium
HLP 1988

SAMEER (Mohafez x Sabah), 1983
Licensing: Premium
HLP 1988

MONTASAR (Madkour x Maymoonah), 1981
Licensing: Premium
HLP 1987

************************___________________******************____________*******
*********



Here are the stallions who made the HLP but failed to get a premium or a gold ribbon:

EL FAATIN (Masir x Shams El Faanah), 1990
HLP 1994

SHAMS EL ARABI (Farouk x Bint El Arabi), 1978
HLP 1982

MANIAL (Masir x Shadia), 1979
HLP 1984

NESHAMIR (Neshan x REG Miri Sereneh), 1996
HLP 2002

NABRAS (Taymour x Nahifeh), 1994
HLP 2003

LAHEEB IBN LOOZA (Messaoud x El Thay Looza), 1989
HLP 1995

SHAMS EL ARTUS (Shams El Arabi x Shams el Arabia), 1984
HLP 1988

EL MONIET (Mohafez x Madinah), 1982
HLP 1986

SINAI (Sihdih x Ghazah), 1982
HLP 1986

MIRZA II (El Thay Masoud x Hamasa Mirja), 1997
HLP 2004

EL MAREEK (Idrees x Bint Bint Wedad), 1986
HLP 1991

AMIR MAHABB (Kaisoon x Morasha), 1985
HLP 1990

FAA EL SHARIK (Dhar Faa Halim x Monieta Sharie), 1992
HLP 1997

TOMAN (Shadwan xSafinaz), 1984
HLP 1989

IBN MOHEBA (Nizam x Moheba II), 1982
HLP 1986

NASKHI (Gharib x Nbya), 1977
HLP 1980

KHALED EL ASSUAD (Kasr El Nile x Kaythara), 1983
HLP 1987

Al KIDIR - Elite Stallion (The Egyptian Prince x AK Khattaara), 1983
HLP 1987
HLM
Dear Sabine

I really dont like your attitude. Since when are the Arabins under saddle "ugly" . Have you seen our herd or that of many of our smaller breeders here and aboad? Just ask a rider, if they are riding the head or the horse.


To shortchange the accomplishments of the HLP is not productive. These breeders/owners sacrificed a lot, but have pride and honor to test. Personally, I have yet to see an ugly SE under saddle. But I have seen many a garden ornament- what is called a "classic" who could do nothing. If I am that wrong, why are they not proven? Why cant we see or hear about it? so what do you think they willproduce?
What true breeder in their right mind breeds from unproven stock?
And who can afford to buy it? who has the money to keep a garden ornament for possibly thirty years in the front yeard to look at?

so let's be reasonable, encourage people to use their horses for what they were created, test and select from the best to breed on and let's forget about those daydreams and the wishful thinking. It has taken too many people into the gutter and could bring the true Arabian Desertbred horse into extinction..

No hard feelings
Hansi biggrin.gif
SabineGuest
Please don't twist my words. I never said performance horses are ugly.
Whenever a beautiful horse is shown here you pop up and ask what it has accomplished under saddle.
It's inevitible. It's legitime to ask the same with a performance horse. If you insist on a beautiful horse should be shown under saddle to get acceptance from you it's legitime as well that I ask a performace stallion should have the conformation and type accepted as a "premium" stallion in Germany. Enough said. I think those who posted the list already did understand.
anitae
Hallo, Hansi and all,

It is great news that a SE stallion of mostly Babson breeding (90%) successfully completed the 70-day Marbach stallion licensing exam. I saw his scores posted on another thread. The nine horses who scored better were all warmbloods, and he scored better than 2 Shagyas and an Anglo-Arab that also completed the test with passing scores.

However, I think few of the people who are English-only speakers know that the "Hlp" roughly translates to Stallion Licensing Test and so will miss this news and the understanding of the significance of this test.

So please, for the benefit of those not in Europe and not intimately familiar with the licensing programs (and the changes that happened after the EU), would SOMEBODY explain, in English, the types of licensing done in Germany in the past and currently. What is the current difference between the 120-day test and the 70-day test? Do they still give the gold, silver medallions or was that stopped by the EU rules; what is the Premium system? What is the approximate cost for doing such tests? It must be rather significant, so what is the benefit to the stallion owner of going through this process?

There seems to be a growing interest in the US with performance evaluation, and it should be good education for people in the US to understand these systems.

Thank you

Anita
(although I can read the German, I am not qualified to explain these matters)
HLM
No Sabine, not acceptance from me, but from any "saine" horsemen/women.

absolutely will I continue to ask what a beautiful Se has accomplished under saddle- stallions- I owe this to all those who sacrificed time and fortunes with the original imports here and in Europe. those are the people who put the straight Egyptian Horse on the map and those who are still alive, shake their heads and watch with sadness and disgust how things tunred out to be.

I have visited many, many farms, in Canada, here and abroad, saw hundreds of SES under saddle, in performance classes and also at halter, and it is those smaller breeders who continue where we left off.

I have absolutely no respect for any breeder of name, who refuses to test their breeding stallion, while in a financial position to do so, and then neglect giving credit to the excellent SEs of our smaller breeders by forcing an unorxedoxed judging point system to please their own accomplishments. More so, that such breeders do not induce their clients to put these aquisitions into training and test them.

A Yearling colt was sold at the EE for $ 100,000 I was told. Now can anybody in their right mind justify this? Of course you will say, that's their business, and I say it is insaine. Of course, there will be only the od one sold this way, even though it carries a prefix.

Now we shall be watching this goldplated colt and see what he will do in the future.

I feel that we all should take a bit more responsibility, if we realy care for the preservation of the Straight Egyptian Arab- the good ones, and not just go on a fantasy trip.

I guess one could start with taking horsemenship/riding lessons
open the eyes and see what the rest of the world is doing.
That would be an exelent start, in my sincere opinion.

Again no hard feelings
Hansi rolleyes.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
usamah ezzain
DEAR GOLD MEMBER HANSI,
BEING AN OLD LADY AND BREEDER DEFINITELY GIVES YOU CERTAIN PRIVILEGES,BUT IN NOWAYS TO CALL PEOPLE INSANE mad.gif PEOPLE ARE FREE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITHOUT BEING SCARED WITH YOUR KIND OF TERRORISM mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif and enforced TUTORING.
I HAD TO ANSWER YOU SINCE I HAVE BOUGHT THAT 100000$ 2 DAYS COLT,NK QASWARAH ,WHO I THINK YOU NEVER HAVE SEEN HIS LIKES YET laugh.gif AND NEVER WILLBE ABLE TOO tongue.gif AND CAN NOT EVEN DREAM OF ONE laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
SabineGuest
My dear Hansi,
so the same apllies to me. I will continue to ask if these performance horse meet the standard of beauty, type and conformation.
Timbuk2
Hansi

Have we not been through this before, can you please explain how you know that the horses you refer to as Garden Ornaments can not perform, you keep making these wide sweeping statements with absolutely no proof to back them up. I can see that one day will find yourself in court fighting a defamation suit.

What someone chooses to pay for a colt is absolutely none of your business, we all know that a horse is only worth what someone is prepare to pay for it, perhaps your main concern is that you have not sold one of your own untested colts for the same kind of money, or have you? Now that would be a turn up wouldn't it?ph34r.gif

Usamah

Congratulations on the purchase of such a lovely colt, wub.gif I think you may have a bargain there, as you may or may not know I have been searching for a filly for some time now and anything that is of superior quality such as this little colt of yours commands a huge price. Well done, I look forward to seeing him as he grows and becomes a wonderful sire of the future as his pedigree says he will.

Kind Regards
Tim
usamah ezzain
dear tim,
thank you for your gallant superior words,i really do believe that my dear freind dr.hans nagel was so gallant and generous with me too wub.gif wub.gif
you are most welcome to visit NK QASWARAH at his NEST laugh.gif
guestGuest
Dear Usamah,

Your colt looks wonderful. I know Dr. Nagel bred him but who is the sire & dam?
almuntaha
The Sire can only be ONE Horse: NK Hafid Jamil - right Usamah??? rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

Kind regards

Christian
usamah ezzain
right my dear FREIND CHRISTIAN wub.gif and the mother is nobody BUT wub.gif wub.gif NK NARIMAN
HLM
Der Usamah

First of all I said "Yearling" not "2day old colt". You dont seem to get the idea and understanding at all, and that is your perogative. I did not mean to be argumentative, just a reminder of what there was and is now. Econdly, I dont believe "2day old colts" were shown at the EE, or?

Terrorism" well if this is what you call it, so be it. I call it preservtion of the Asil/Se Aabian horses. And believe me, I am really not impressed. I, as thousands of others will be impressed, when we see what a horse, including your colt can do UNDER SADDLE-
But as you said, its a free country, all can do as they please,
I know that. If you feel that the SE industry is flourishing, tell me how and why, because I dont see it.

I had no idea that sound, sincere and honest advise can be so misconstrued. so forgive me if I stepped on your toes.

In the meantime enjoy your lovely colt and have a grand day

No hard feelings
Hansi rolleyes.gif
HLM
Der Sabine

I am hearing all sort of excuses, defends, even insults, to justify that SE stallions should not be tested under saddle.
I also feel that at time we are on the same wavelenghth and mean the same, but use different words. Look how Usama got his feathers ruffled, when indeed I was talking of a different colt, not his.
Already he assumes that nobody will come up with the likes, and I wonder how many farms he has inspected. He might get a surprise.


I am always thinking of the original imports, how type/beautiful and functional they were, and that really is my yeardstick.
Often I think, that some folks are thining of one particular type only, and I dont believe that this is right or even fair.
When horses are judged by beauty only, or receive extra points and then win, but dont have the conformation to be functional, I feel we are regressing. At the same time I have seen excellent Se in these halter classes, which looked like an arabian horse, acted like one and were superiror in conformation, particular in legs and movement, but did not even place.

Under our rules here we have a "Modell Class" which is like the "Miss America class". But also in the latter one equirements of certain talents are demanded. A Halter class is supposed to be a "Breeding Class" and if properly executed, people will learn from it.

I hope you can follow my thinking.

have a nice day
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
usamah ezzain
dear(not der???)HLM,
ARROGANCE,RUDENESS,SELFCONCEIT,KNOWING IT ALL are also your perogatives as well laugh.gif
I DID NOT SAY THAT YOU MENTIONED ME mad.gif BUT SPOKE OF THE INSOLANCE OF YOU TO CALL PEOPLE INSANE JUST BECAUSE THEY DONT SHARE YOUR INSANITIES laugh.gif laugh.gif

P.S I VISITED THE MISERABLE LADY YOU SHOVELED 30 OR SO OF YOUR SUPERIOR EQUINE EXAMPLES DOWN HER THROAT TO DEATH GALLANTLY laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif :lol:FOR A MERE 1000,000$ ph34r.gif
-Kate-
ohmy.gif what is happening here? seems like a war is started mad.gif
Usamah why are you so full "hate" to Hansi? as far as I can see she didnt say one bad word to you, but you take is so personal. Even though I do not ride myself, I always take everything Hansi writes seriously, she has been breeding lige forever, and knows what she is talking about. I really respect her.
And to be honest I think it IS insane to pay 100.000 $ for a horse that havent shown anything under saddle! but it's peoples own money, and if they want to waste it on something that might not even last the next 5 years, then it's fine with me.

Hansi, I hope there are more breeders like you in the world, or I will fear to see the breed in the future! sad.gif
usamah ezzain
First of all I said "Yearling" not "2day old colt". You dont seem to get the idea and understanding at all, and that is your perogative. I did not mean to be argumentative, just a reminder of what there was and is now. Econdly, I dont believe "2day old colts" were shown at the EE, or?

DEAR KATE(THE POOR SWEET GOODHEARTED)WHAT YOU CALL THIS,CUDDLING cool.gif
Usamah
Usamah ....you have an incredible looking colt , and yes you are quite right in what you say , if I could afford to purchase such a wonderful looking animal then that would be my choice and no one elses.
I wish you every success !!

Chris gbfahne.gif
Dr Daniel Wigger
Why do people always suggest that NK horses can't be ridden and can't perform. The fact that they are ethereal beauties do not exclude that they can. The fact that Dr. Nagel never put emphasis on selecting for performance abilities does not exclude that they still can. Don't forget that many of the foundation horses of SE breeding were tested on the racetrack and many of them were quite faulty and not in a comparable condition like European and American race horses at that time - that potential doesn't breed away in 4 or 5 generations.

Hanan's sire, for example, was a successful race horse. I doubt that he only passed on his "beauty" genes on her ...

Jamil (Madkour I x Hanan), 100% NK bred, passed the HLP

Sinus (Salaa El Dine x Senaja), 100% NK bred, ran successfully on the racetrack in Poland

Maybe others can contribute examples biggrin.gif .
Gabi Schweiher
NK BolBol (Salaa el Dine x Sanana v. Nahaman)hätte fast die HLP in Marbach geschaft, hätte er nicht 2 Tage vorher verletzungsbedingt aufhören müssen, schade drum, er ist jetzt heiss geliebterund extrem rittiger Reithengst geworden.
HLM
Usama, what is the matter with you? I know many Arabs" and each one is a "gentleman".

Yes, I consider it insaine to breed from an unproven/tested stallion, which in my opinion few renowned breeder would attempt.
Have you looked at the Polish/russian/French/spanish materbreeders?
Have you looked through history and visited many farms?.

I truly resent your insults and you do not impress me one bit with being able to pay $ 100,000 for a 2-day old colt, many of us can do this, but doubt if they would. Is there anything else you can do, other than signing a cheque?

And last, I truly resent your insults and feel certain that you will go a long way with it in a climate condusive. So please let's stop this nonsense, stick to facts and try to stay part of our wonderul Se industry. Try to eliminate anomosity and help getting the SES under saddle, to show the world what they indeed can do.

I wish you a grand day and may God set your thinking a bit straight.

Hansi rolleyes.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
HLM
Dear Kate

thank you. Usama is not representing the wonderful arabian people I know for over 45 years in his unwise attacks and insults. May be he has a bad day, and may be he thinks respect can be bought. I have understanding for children and those who lose it and forgive readily.

Have a ncie day
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
HLM
Dear Dr Wigger

Yes, Alaa El din raced 1/6(1-1-1).

However, I feel you are not getting it either, so forgive me if I am repeating again and again that a renowned and knowledgeable breeder should take the initiatives to test their stallions and not just rely on ancestors.
We owned a maternal sister to Hanan, "Serenity MOntaha". she was a halater champion but also defeated in detroit the National English Pleasure Champion Mare Basquina and became the English Pleasure champion, that after weaning her colt and still drewling milk.

I remember all original importers/breeders tested their stallions, under saddle or driving and tested their offspring, Todate you will see the results in the excellent Babson SES, Gleannloch and ours and many others.

We also say" Monkey see, Monkey do" and must think of our younger generation to lead them into using a horse, for what it is designed for. Dr Nagel as others, have the monetary recourses
to train and test to ascertain if one is still on the right track, competitive against the best Arabians of other bloodlines and leading in a direction to have the SES maintain respect for what they can do, and not just a pedigree.

Man o' War was a famous racehose, a statue of his at the Kentucky Horse Park. He had a full brother a year later, named "Miracle"
What was wrong with him " HE COULD NOT RUN" and was worth not a penny. Although Genes dont lie, they can be tricky.

Of course, we all can do as we please, but some of us have a sense of responsibility and do not only put he burden of proof on our smaller breeders, which strugle to keep the SES in focus.


If we say, we love these Arabian horse" what does this exactly mean? running them into extinction by degenerating them? Breeding from unproven sires and hoping for the best? do you really call this breeding?

We honestly need to do some tall thinking, dont you agree? It is the horse, which should make a name for itself, not the owner alone, right?

Have a grand day
Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
usamah ezzain
THE LAST REPLY TO ME PROVES MY POINT ABOUT YOU,YOU ARE THE QUEEN WHEN IT COMES TO BAD MANNERS mad.gif mad.gif mad.gif
DEFINITELY I WILL STOP THIS NONESENSE SINCE I CAN NOT SINK TO YOUR LEVELS cool.gif
Dr Daniel Wigger
Dear Hansi,

... well, I think, I'm getting it. I know you and your message very well. Test, test, test, then breed. I also don't think that you are wrong. Only you cannot prove whether a Serenity horse XY is the better performer over a NK horse Z. You simply don't know it before testing. So what I try to say is that I doubt that Serenity horses are the better performers over the NK horses because of their pedigree. Both, Serenity and NK have the potential in their genes, I'm sure. Only the difference is, Hansi tested it and put emphasis on it and Hans (Nagel) didn't. The whole dispute here is based on a fundamental misunderstanding:

No-one can prove, that NK horses can't perform, because they are bred without testing. No-one can prove, that Serenity horses, that were tested, will pass on their performence abilities. Both have the genetic potential. YOU ARE RIGHT, testing, testing, testing is the only means to find out ... but jumping to conclusions about horses that weren't tested, IS WRONG in both cases, NK AND Serenity.
Ralph
Hansi:

It's tiring...enough already. Leave the people and their horses alone. mad.gif

As has already been said, you have very bad manners.

Many people (all over the world) know Usamah for the honorable man that he is. To say something contrary about his character, is terrible (and shows the entire world how little you really know). Let me remind you that the world is not as small as the room that you sit in and type the violent words on your computer.

WHO GAVE YOU THIS POSITION OF AUTHORITY OVER THE EGYPTIAN ARABIAN HORSE COMMUNITY?

Ralph
Guest
WOW what's wrong with people, you all act like a bunch of kids ohmy.gif
paelmchen
You are right guest!

I repeat:

"To be an equestrian in the classical sense is
not just to be a rider. It is a position in life"
Charles de Knuffy


I´ve learned at the german school for officers it´s" A QUESTION OF HONOUR" not to behave like some people do here!

Please show some more respect !

ciao roland palm
Ralph
Roland:

I have no war with you...you are a nice guy but where I come from, respect is earned not automatically given. Normally, a person of Hansi's age is wise and someone to respect...unfortunately, how can I respect someone who behaves like her? Until we lose our free will and we have to act, according to another person's standards...I cannot and will not respect Hansi.

Sorry about that but the truth cannot be manipulated into something that it is not. sad.gif

Ralph
usamah ezzain
DEAR RALPH,
wub.gif wub.gif THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND SWEET WORDS,YOU ARE A REAL GENTLEMAN AND A FREIND INDEED cool.gif
BACKHOME WE HAVE A SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD NOT PLAY WITH A FOOL OR EVEN ALLOW HIM TO PLAY WITH YOU,OTHERWISE YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT DIRTS FLYING AT YOU ph34r.gif
AND THE WISEST THING TO DO AS GOD ORDERED US WHEN YOU ARE CONFRONTED WITH UNKNOWELEDGEABLE PEOPLE,JUST SAY(SALAMAN)THAT IS BYE BYE AND LEAVE US IN PEACE laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Gari
Perhaps the problem here is that as Dr. Wigger has noted it is not for anyone to judge a horse unless it has been specifically tested, no matter what it's breeding. Having had the sheer joy of watching some of Mr. Usamah Ezzain's horses, if only on some of the best video taken anywhere (whoever does his videos has outstanding equipment and a genuine knack of capturing each creature...surely as close to divine as can be found -either that or the Greeks had it right and there is a horse God looking on...never have I seen so many exquisite horses on one video), I'd be real slow to criticize these horses structurally. They are not gimmicked and can be viewed at ANY angle, and I'd defy anyone to find fault. Clearly the Ezzain horses have been selected with careful attention taken of structure.

It is NO ONE's business what one pays for a horse, so pointing out a specific instance and not be an actual party to a sale, is way out of line and extremely rude any way one wants to discuss it. We've all had those who have wanted one of our horses that we didn't want to sell and if harassed enough for a price, probably put one on that is unreachable. Some are fortunate enough to be able to reach such a price as one gentleman here can. AND that is his business. No one else's.

As for testing all horses....absolutely. All mine are started under saddle unless sold before their third year. We've several ridden champions at local, Scottsdale and Nationals level, and one has just received his Legion of Honor. I might add ALL taken to such wins by clients!
HLM
Dear Dr Wigger

I sometimes really get confused with certain replies. Where did I ever state that a Serenity horse is better than any other?

You are absolutely correct, that the best horse is the one which defeats the rest. So send them out and compete, talk is cheap.

I always enjoy so much when one of our collegues has success, which takes a lot of work, time and money and highly respect these endevours. One cant win them all, cant lose them all either, but what one can lose is attitude, manners, and respect. I am always speaking "in General" unless I am called to reply to someone-something in particular or am asked.. Surely you have noticed this.

I dont understand, why things always have to become personal when many of us are speaking of the entire SE industry, all breeders and owners. If some can not see what has transpired over the past 20 years and where it is going, we wont be able to make headway.

I know of posters who have never bred a horse, yet tell the rest of the world how to breed a good one. Have never been in the saddle and judge horseflesh of what it can do or not and resent anything which does not fit their ideas. when facts come about, some resent this even. I was under the impression that there is nothing on this earth one can not disuss intelligently and arrive at a conclusion, including to agree to disagree.

Personally, I am not here to win a popularity contest either, simply want to share my experiences and knowledge and try to do my best to get ALL SES GAINING RESPECT. But this can only be done if the SES stallions at least get out there and show the public what they a re and can do. Is this so hard to understand, so hard to follow? Is such reminder/request unreasonable?

We must be making ourselves a laughing stock by those nations, who dilligently test their breeding stock, kull when required and show the world what they were able to produce. I assure you, many have done excellently in this regard. To overlook this, or discard it is not very wise. To overlook the efforts of our smaller breeders, their personal sacrifices holding the bag so to speak, does not speak much of our industry leaders, I feel. Now this is my sincere opinion.


thanks for your post and I wish you a wonderful day

Hansi biggrin.gif
Serenity Arabian Farms
Barbara Johnson
Bravo Roland... If we want to be good horsepeople, then we should learn to behave honourably toward each other. And I think that should apply to everybody... I know Hansi is often provocative in her way, and has a tendency to think only her way is the right way. But I thought Usamah's posts were a teensy bit offensive too. I've noticed that on other threads too, as soon as someone has a different opinion. I don't see why such behaviour should be condemned in one poster and forgiven in the other, just because one likes the latter person's horses very much... So perhaps we should all stop behaving like we are in Kindergarten. Like who you like and respect who you choose, but stop the public mud slinging, for the sake of all. It's a pity this fighting diverted from the original theme of this thread.

It would still interest me which SEs in Germany got a gold ribbon AND a HLP?
Guest
QUOTE
Never argue with an idiot. For someone may pass by and see you arguing ...... and not know which one is the idiot.
Guest
QUOTE
The recipe for perpetual Ignorance is : Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
(Elbert Hubbard 1856-1915)
Gari
Unless Ms. Johnson you think it is all right to discuss other's business? I found it extremely offensive that a specific sale at a specific site was discussed and then with no knowledge whatsoever of the circumstances, discussed publicly. Perhaps where you come from your business can be discussed on an open board and you don't care. In some societies there is nothing more rude and subject to libel as it should be. It doesn't matter how right the point might be-in this instance testing horses, indeed they should be-justifying any rudeness is simply thoughtless, wouldn't you agree-especially on a location where people's grasp of language nuance is somewhat hazardous and the results easily misconstrued.
Ralph
Guest
Enough already . Arguments as petty as those do nothing but confirm the fact that the industry is in trouble. Hansi is not an easy person to deal with but she is definitely a hundred times more knowledgeable then Mr Usama who is extremely arrogant and has no respect for anyone. Infact the initial post by Hansi had nothing to do with him but he decided to take her on. No only did he do that but he showered her with insults . He is pissed off because Hansi said that it is insane to do this or that. Maybe Mr. Usamah should check his other posts where he insuled and bashed anyone who dared argue with him . He called judges blind..etc. So give us a break and as they say "people in glass houses should not throw stones". Oh don't start now on why sign as a guest ..etc. the typical no response. As for Dr. Daniel Wigger and Ralph how can you condone such behaviour. What honorable person will relentlessly insult anyone who dares disagrees with him. This is not a sign of honor but is definitely a sign of bad breeding. Hansi give it a rest . Your crusade to convnce everyone that Arabian horses should be horses first is falling on deaf ears not because it is wrong but because in trying to make a point you step on toes , make innuendos about other people's horses and presume yourself as the sole authority . No one denies your years of experience but it is your approach that got you such a rude reaction from Mr. Usamah. Why can't we carry a civilized conversation instead. Anyone who disagrees that a horse should be rideable and typey is a foool and anyone who thinks he or she have the best horses in the industry is more of a fool. People that need o blow their horn all the time usually have not much to say and have too muc insecurity. As they say "empty vessels make most noise".
Barbara Johnson
QUOTE (Gari @ Aug 24 2005, 08:37 PM)
justifying any rudeness is simply thoughtless, wouldn't you agree-especially on a location where people's grasp of language nuance is somewhat hazardous and the results easily misconstrued.

That was exactly what I was trying to say. I simply think that that rule should count for everybody, that was my point. Only there are people around who think it's a great idea to counter rudeness with even more rudeness, or insults, or sarcasm. Only that doesn't make you a better person than the one you're complaining about, does it. Ok ok, I'll be off again, sorry I dared mention it. Just a pity that there's always this fighting going on, as if there's not enough in the world already.
-CelinaSmith-
Guest, I think that post is gonna hurt someone biggrin.gif wink.gif
But I totally agree with you smile.gif
Ralph
My dear GUEST,

In this site, if you love beautiful horses, you are very quickly trained to always have your "dukes" up...it seems that there is always someone lurking in the corner to express volatile (and usually incorrect) opinions about typey horses.

I believe your comments about Usamah are WRONG, as you never see him asking about a horse's accomplishments under saddle or making a mockery of someone else's breeding program or writing books casting doubts on other people's horses...if he does use hard words or expressions, more than likely he has been provoked.

As Gari Dill-Marlow clearly stated, it is no one's business how much money a person pays for a horse and clearly, Hansi was in the wrong by saying that anyone who pays $100,000 for an unproven colt is "insane". Of course it has everything to do with Usamah, by Hansi's very own words...he is "insane".

The fact of the matter is, having been on this site for as long as I have been, Hansi never has a good word for anyone. I have seen people step in and defend her...only to see her turn against these people too (Where are you Julia?)

I think you are right

ENOUGH ALREADY.




Gari
QUOTE (Barbara Johnson @ Aug 24 2005, 08:54 PM)
QUOTE (Gari @ Aug 24 2005, 08:37 PM)
justifying any rudeness is simply thoughtless, wouldn't you agree-especially on a location where people's grasp of language nuance is somewhat hazardous and the results easily misconstrued.

That was exactly what I was trying to say. I simply think that that rule should count for everybody, that was my point. Only there are people around who think it's a great idea to counter rudeness with even more rudeness, or insults, or sarcasm. Only that doesn't make you a better person than the one you're complaining about, does it. Ok ok, I'll be off again, sorry I dared mention it. Just a pity that there's always this fighting going on, as if there's not enough in the world already.

Ms. Johnson,

You are absolutely right. My point was that people should not start such-period. It is always out of line to bring up specifics in the first place, unless it is with express permission of the participants....otherwise....Think we are both saying the exact same thing and your points are very well made.

Thank you!

Gari

Just saw your post, Ralph and you have it exactly right. I've never seen Mr. Ezzain be anything but upbeat about the horses and he has never denigrated anyone's. There is a definite 'put up your dukes before going on' mentality as there is a good deal of jealously from many quarters....especially these cowardly anonymous guests....
ELAcrisi
ohmy.gif I'm shocked - I can see the discussion started "in general" and I'm absolutely shocked shocked shocked about the behaviour of 2 members of this bord they had never been attact personally but bring their personal animosity in a way against Hansi I cannot accept - it's very rude.

I also not agree with Hansi all the time but here she war argueing straight minded with a lot of knowledge in the background and no one personally attacing. She has her mind and she is not wrong.

I enjoie your horses but they are way better than your style today, Uzzama - tongue.gif is it maybee full moon in "nice Arabia down"??????????????? biggrin.gif

Come back to discussion that's why this forum is. The subject has a lot of potential to discuss.

Christina
Ralph
Christina! blink.gif
Gari
Christina,

Attack is the risk run by those who bring up specifics as was done originally siting the only EE 100K sale. That is not a generality, and then certain behavior was called 'insane'. The reaction was not unexpected and should not have been. It is the way it goes.
Dr Daniel Wigger
QUOTE (Barbara Johnson @ Aug 24 2005, 07:56 PM)
It would still interest me which SEs in Germany got a gold ribbon AND a HLP?

Originally there was no gold ribbon in Germany, but stallion licensing - so it would only be justified to mention both, those stallions licensed, premium or elite +HLP and those with gold ribbon + HLP. If I forgot SE stallions, please feel free to add:

Adawi (Maysoun x Ameenah II), 50% Nagel-bred, grand-sire leased by Nagel
Al Kidir (The Egyptian Prince x AK Khattaara)
Authentic Ibn Nawaal (Maysoun x Nawaal), 25% Nagel-bred, grand-sire leased by Nagel
El Allah Abu (Thee Desperado x Shaamisa Mystique)
Ibn Magdi (Ibn Galal x Gamila), sire imported by Nagel
M Sharin (Ibn Bint Inas x Shannah), 3 grand-parents imported by Nagel, one=25% Nagel-bred
Messaoud (Madkour x Maymoonah)
Muqatamm (Mahomed x Ghazalah)
Sameer (Mohafez x Sabah), 100% Nagel-bred
Shams El Farabi-Flor (Ibrahim x Shams El Farabiah), 50% Nagel-bred
Siam (Madkour I x Sehnab), 50% Nagel-bred

biggrin.gif tongue.gif
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